Young Master Smeet
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Well, Reform are showing there may be a way to muscle out one of the big two. But, also, that’s why I think they need a substantial party grouping (and at least 10K members). Partly they’d need to drown out any star leader to avoid the Sherridan effect. I think there are elements in Labour would love a split.
But, they’d need to go about now, to have enough time to build for a decent chance at the next general election.
I think the only way it could come about would be a substantial group forming in Parliament, 10+ MPs to be the 4th largest group, with the RMT onboard (and maybe Unite?). An earthquake would be 70+, but I think that,. realistically, is what it would take to make any more difference over previous left of Labour splinters.
To be honest, I don’t see a group coming out of the usual suspects: it’d have to be a breakout group from newly elected people, that stays away from Corbyn himself.
I certainly never said we would ‘Abolish Money’ I was always careful to say the need for money.
Interesting levels of brand penetration the SWP have that that is where his mind goes; also, not McDonell says ‘not the socialist party’.
It was nice to hear Burghart use our favourite Benn quote about the Labour Party.
[Moderator note] The theme of this thread is the recent riots and the response, I’ll remove any more posts on the topic of conspiracies (unless they directly relate to the riots).
[Moderator note] The theme of this thread is the recent riots and the response, I’ll remove any more posts on the topic of the party’s name.
Tangently, it was interesting to read the background of the recent revolt in Bangladesh:
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/bangladesh-crossroads-aftermath-peoples-revolution
” the near absence of any democratic accountability, countless violations of human rights and above all the shameless rigging of elections in 2014, 2018 and 2024. In 2014 the entire opposition, including the left, boycotted the election and 153 (out of 300) members of parliament were elected unopposed.
In 2018 the opposition parties along with the left front participated but the election was hijacked the night before when the ballot boxes were filled and the Hasina regime got nearly 100 per cent of the seats.”
Sheikh Hasina fled when she lost support of the army: until then, they clearly blatantly rig elections. the important point is the army decided its future lay in sacrificing Hasina.
So long as Maduro has the army, he will be able to cling on, but he only has the army as long as it suits them, not vice versa.
Oh, go on:
E.C. 12.4.38 Groves & Wilmott “That South West London Branch be informed that in the opinion of this E.C. the participation of a Party contingent in the May Day demonstration does not conflict in any way with the Party Principles, and this E.C. sees no reason to alter the decision previously arrived at.” Cd. 9-2
Party Poll 1938 “Are you in favour of a unit representing the Socialist Party marching with and being a part of the procession organised to celebrate May Day?” YES 62 NO 103
Party Poll 13.9.38 “Shall the Party participate in demonstrations of the May Day type?” FOR: 95 AGST: 81
E.C. 15.6.54 McClatchie & Lake “That Comrade Langston be informed that, in the opinion of the E.C., it is inadvisable for members to march in May Day Processions associated with other Political Parties, because of the confusion that is likely to be engendered by doing so, but straightforward trade union processions are a different matter.” Cd. 8-2
@Chelmsford: I did try to leaflet a bunch of fascists who had turned up to counter protest an anti war march, they didn’t want to take any.I think the fash have shot their bolt, they’ve demonstrated they are committed and organised, but their numbers are small, and the counter protest being peaceful and disciplined shows they wouldn’t win.
I think this case is similar to the mysterious appearance of the Countryside Alliance, it’s the right showing they have teeth, and are not out for the count (and also regrouping). Telling, also, that Labour is trying to hold the centre by still being against immigration and seeing ‘legitimate grievances’.
The Telegraph had a headline yesterday “Company director sobs in court as he’s remanded for alleged role in Middlesbrough riots”, now it turns out the lad worked in his dad’s firm.
And here’s a list of those that appeared in court:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/named-17-people-who-appeared-29689841Doubtless more will follow, I doubt if the actual organisers will get bit on the bum.
From what I could see of the Boro was that the trouble was from kids in tracksuits on bicycles: same as any other evening really. Middlesbrough, the last few times I’ve been up, is sinking: it used to be the local fleshpots and glamour lights, but most of Linthorpe road is now take aways, presumably propped up by the Uni.
There is an element of collective bargaining by riot, but the racism is real and deep. There was a video doing the rounds of a young lad being interviewed (not from Boro) claiming the immigrants are coming and taking all our jobs and benefits: the interviewer pointed out if they’re working they’re not taking benefits, but in his head both claims are true: the Other is getting everything, we get nothing. I’ve heard gadgees back home saying ‘oh, Asians get all the council houses’ – they’d never dream of applying for a council house themselves, but they believe the Other is getting everything.
Sorry, just saw this para:
“Our results also indicate that the global South is drained of a large quantity of productive capacity through unequal exchange (9–16% of its total productive capacity, in terms of labour, is drained in any given year). 826 billion hours of labour in 2021 is equivalent to 369 million workers (assuming 2236 h per worker per year, which is the global South average as presented in Table 1). This is more than the total workforce of the United States and the European Union combined. This quantity of labour could be mobilised to produce housing and nutritious food for communities within the global South, or to build and staff hospitals and schools, thus provisioning for local human needs and achieving necessary development objectives; but instead—because of the squeezing of Southern labour and producers, and because of constraints on the ability of Southern states to develop greater economic sovereignty—it is appropriated to produce within global supply chains that service Northern growth, consumption and accumulation.”This is key, and is essentially our position, that freed from capitalist distortions, we could develop the world rapidly. Interesting to see it quantified, though.
Yes, so, for example, they state: “core states and firms leverage their geopolitical and commercial power to compress wages, prices and profits in the global South, both at the level of national economies as well as within global commodity chains (which account for more than 70% of trade), such that Southern prices are systematically lower relative to Northern prices13,14. Price inequalities compel Southern states and producers to export more labour and resources embodied in traded goods to the global North each year in order to pay for any given level of imports, enabling Northern economies to net-appropriate value to the benefit of Northern capital and consumers.”
Also, I think they leave out Varoufakis’ global minotaur here: owners elites in the global south export their capital back to the core, rather than investing locally, so the global pool of capital, although housed in the core in fact represents all capitalists.
And: “structural adjustment programmes (SAPs)[…] devalued Southern currencies, cut public employment and removed labour and environmental protections, imposing downward pressure on wages and prices. They also curtailed industrial policy and state-led investment in technological development and compelled Southern governments to prioritise ‘export-oriented’ production in highly competitive sectors and in subordinate positions within global commodity chains. At the same time, lead firms in the core states have shifted industrial production to the global South to take direct advantage of cheaper wages and production costs, while leveraging their dominance within global commodity chains to squeeze the wages and profits of Southern producers. These interventions have further increased the North’s relative purchasing power over Southern labour and goods.”
On what counts as North/South: “Our category for the global North approximates the IMF list of ‘advanced economies’, with the South comprising all emerging and developing economies”
This from the tables is interesting:
Across the global North in 1995 hours worked per worker was 1895 in 1995 but 1770 in 2021 whereas in the South it was 2216 and 2236: it seems the growth in Southern labour has been extensive rather than intensive, but the case remains that there seems to be a greater level of exploitation.
As anyone who has dealt with a standard procurement contract under capitalism will tell you, the specifications run to way more than cost: if you need 5mm steel nails with teflon coating, that’s what you state. As you say, with the Soviet (I think it was actually steel plates) target by weight it was an arbitrary measurable target set from the centre. But when the customer tells you what they want, and your target is to satisfy measured customer demand (or negotiate to alter their demand based on what is easier for you to produce, could you make do with 6mm nails?).
Kantorovich’s linear equations do allow to make rational decisions between productive units to match required outputs: in his version, these outputs would be set by a central plan, but there is no reason why they could not also work for matching real expressed demand. If need be, per Dworkins cited in Dapprich, adjusted winner auctions are a useful functional way of expressing real desire/need (there is an issue, but not insurmountable of who needs to bid). Lloyd Shapley’s stable matching algorithms are also a useful method, both are rational ways of dealing with measuring demand that do not require commodity exchange. Even Dapprich’s tokens are fine: Kantorovich linear algebra to match real token demand would be functional.
As some writers have pointed out, Amazon is leading the way with this, and the reality is that you don’t need to hit optimal efficiency, but tend toward it.
Per Bijou Drains above: in reality, efficiency doesn’t matter as long as the targets, the outcomes are rational and they are met: socialism would not be a labour sparing system, and in the final analysis, that’s the nub of Mises’ complaint, that socialism isn’t capitalism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/E14001175
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/E14001239Folkestone & Hythe 71 votes
Clapham & Brixton, 122 votes
