Wez
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Trying to reform the system is like cutting off heads of the hydra where more appear after every decapitation. This is what leads to political cynicism and despair among many on the left.
TM – ‘celibacy ensured ecclesiastical power’
What’s the evidence for this – I’m told that even Pope’s had many illegitimate children.
TM – It’s usual to purge the radical elements within the ranks supporting the bourgeoisie in their struggle once the revolution is secured – happened in the French and Russian revolutions as well.
Strewth! TM and Chelmsford have really got it in for the working class. In an attempt to counter all this doom and gloom I can say that during the pandemic my medical conditions made it impossible to do many normal everyday things and I was pleased and surprised how many complete strangers offered me their help. And let’s not forget all those in the medical profession who risked their lives everyday to get us through the worst of it. So let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater – my generation survived the ‘Cuban Crisis’ and the many other dangerous cold war emergencies so we are somewhat used to this end of the world hysteria. Comrades, isn’t it incumbent on us to be a little more optimistic?
In clarifying this we might better be able to get to grips with the “scaling up” objection to socialism which ranks alongside the economic calculation argument and the human nature argument as the principal objections to socialism
We might be able to counter these objections for a very small minority who are open to rational debate but for the majority of both left and right they will just find another excuse to object to socialism. What makes ideology so strong is that it’s impervious to reasoned argument. Our real problem is to convince people that they don’t need leaders to tell them what to do. It takes courage to mature politically in a state dedicated to keeping the population politically infantile. The terror of thinking for oneself is something most cannot overcome. By all means carry on with rational analysis and debate but it’s time we admitted that it doesn’t work for the majority. The endless debate with ‘TS’ seems to prove that the Party hasn’t grasped this fact. I believe this is what we should concentrate on rather than trying to counter the unending rationalizations that reactionaries use to object to socialism.
Robbo – I don’t know this guy’s work but his objections are probably ideological i.e. irrational. Scratch a liberal and you usually find a reactionary underneath.
MS -That’s a bit harsh. It’s not easy running internet forums. However I am surprised that a troll like TS has been allowed to get away with his insults and perverse views for so long. We must guard against alienating those who wish to legitimately engage in debate with us.
james19 – good call ‘What’s Going On’ is one of the greatest albums of all time. Do you know the work of Gil Scott Heron?. Checkout his album ‘Bridges’.
‘Russia is grinding NATO’s proxy Nazi army to dust.’
Your celebration of the working class murdering each other in the name of their respective oligarchs just illustrates how disturbed you really are TS.
‘I believe you see everything not pertinent to your own species as “other”, as you do the universe. As if you are separate from it.’
‘Sagan was a real materialist who knew that air (spiritus) is matter too. Space is not nothingness. Nothing does not exist. Only matter exists, and you are of it. You are not something else’.
It would seem TM that you can’t understand anything that I write. As I said at the beginning of this debate that I believe we are an example of the universe becoming conscious of itself – how on earth could you possibly misinterpret this as meaning that I think that I am separate from it?
So the genius Sagan knew that ‘air’ is matter!? Made of various gasses how could it be other than matter? The void of space is quite different from our atmosphere as I’m sure you know. It’s vacuum is pretty damn close to ‘nothing’. Besides on a philosophical level for ‘something’ to exist we must have a concept of ‘nothing’.‘and also ask how someone you consider a “mere” Romantic was able to work on so many scientific projects.’
TM – Many scientists have had very dodgy politics.‘I know you have no respect for anything that isn’t specifically human.’
TM – ‘Respect’ is a very human emotion. As I’ve said I fear the unrelenting nothingness that is 99.9% of the universe. I remember seeing the first close-up images of Jupiter and being suitably awestruck but it’s only a dead spectacle of gas and dust. I think your awe would be more appropriate when contemplating the improbable evolution of the human mind that allows you to project all of your profound emotions onto an indifferent universe.TM – The contemplation of the sublime (your awe at the beauty of the cosmos) is one of the cornerstones of romantic ideology. History shows us some of the political consequences of this worship of nature and they are all bad! Also any aesthetic response to the cosmos is an essentially human characteristic which contradicts your contempt for our species.
