Wez
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I’ll bet L Bird has donned his mask and gloves even in the absence of a mass vote on the existence or not of the virus.
Robbo, perhaps the reason is that the virus doesn’t respect wealth and the 1% are as likely to catch it as us proles.
‘I’ll just remain baffled.’
Yep, that about sums up your inability to understand politics L Bird. No doubt you will regard that as another insult but the evidence is clear. ALB and robbo have made a clear and coherent explanation but you cannot, or will not, concur. I can only speculate why you are like this time and again. Perhaps you’re just argumentative by nature? Again I can only admire comrades who take the time to try and communicate with you. Is it ever possible that you can be mistaken? Look to yourself and either help us in the struggle or stop wasting our time.
Kaz – you don’t seem to have any conception of the change in mass consciousness that could put us in a political position you envisage above. No one will be interested in playing the bourgeois Westminster games let alone worrying about a ‘socialist prime minister’. The paradigm shift will make all that nonsense anachronistic.
I have always believed that the ‘culture industry’ is much more important in disseminating reactionary ideology than the upfront political propaganda of the media. The insidious violent and idealist/authoritarian narratives of most films, digital games and graphic novels breed a mixture of cynicism and a belief in leaders who can resolve problems through violence.
‘These ideas may cause us to change our minds and make decisions that alter the trajectory of our world”
But, of course, only if they are in accord with the material conditions of life. Men make history but only within the cultural and economic context within which they find themselves. Historical trajectory makes some ideas practical and others idealistic and/or ideological. This differentiates human history from that of natural evolution because our culture creates the world in which we live. I understand John’s anger at ‘human arrogance’ but we must not throw out the baby with the bathwater and occasionally celebrate what our intelligence as a species has achieved in such a short time. We are a very young species and I prefer to concentrate on our potential future rather than our destructive past.
John wrote:‘We are star stuff, but so is your cat; and the entirety of human history and concerns will be gone in a puff of cosmic time just as surely as the maggots in a bowl of stale food.’ and ‘However, we will eventually disappear as a form of existence in no longer than a cosmic second, together with the sum total of all our history and achievements, as will the Earth and this solar system.’
These statements are both valid within the traditional concept of time but this conception is also, along with mind and reality, subject to possible profound revision the more we understand nature (the universe). Is it possible that the mind/reality duality can be resolved by seeing ourselves and our understanding (something that cats and maggots do not exhibit) as an attempt by the universe to become conscious of itself? As you say we are stardust and so we are nature. The delusions of ideology have prevented us from this realization and socialism will finally liberate consciousness from its dualistic egocentric prison (hopefully). This kind of speculation may well frustrate some socialists but such reasoning is preferable to passively accepting cultural norms and helps us exercise our intellect. Ideology tells us what to think and philosophy informs us how to think.
All of Marx’s work was framed within the dialectical philosophical tradition. Don’t forget that science had its origins in natural philosophy. The truth is that without these inherited traditions he could not have transcended elements within them all. We believe socialism to be the resolution of the class struggle and so ending the need for ideology but even after the revolution we will still ponder the questions raised by this thread in terms of mind, consciousness and reality and these concepts remain firmly within the philosophical tradition.
How very British of you John. You don’t find that level of philistinism within the working class of France and Spain etc. I don’t know how or why such anti-intellectualism started in this country but it has long outstayed its welcome.
Perhaps you should change your pub James – such conversations are ‘de rigueur’ in the pubs where I drink. Leaving it to others to figure it out can be very dodgy. The mind/reality duality is one of the oldest philosophical questions and deserves some consideration. We all have consciousness and it is not unreasonable to inquire as to its nature.
L Bird really does live in his own delusional world. Comrades here have debated with him ‘ad nauseam’ but he has no skills at debate and merely repeats himself making communication impossible. I certainly do believe that he has had a negative impact on this forum because a collective sigh of frustration bordering on despair goes up when ever one of his posts appear. It’s the same with many social media forums, the Left get animated about the use of plastic straws and identity politics etc. that frankly socialists find infinitely boring. As to how to motivate participation I would like to see more discussion about the articles in the Standard, which compared with other political journals, is brimming with provocative polemical insight.
Toward nightfall he and his sons-in-law part from their families to pass an hour with their American guest. And the talk was of the world, and of man, and of time, and of ideas, as our glasses tinkled over the sea. The railway train waits for no man, and night is at hand. Over the thought of the babblement and rack of the age and the ages, over the talk of the day and the scenes of the evening, arose in my mind one question touching upon the final law of being, for which I would seek answer from this sage. Going down to the depth of language, and rising to the height of emphasis, during an interspace of silence, I interrogated the revolutionist and philosopher in these fateful words, “What is?” And it seemed as though his mind were inverted for a moment while he looked upon the roaring sea in front and the restless multitude upon the beach. “What is?” I had inquired, to which, in deep and solemn tone, he replied: “Struggle!”
At first it seemed as though I had heard the echo of despair; but, peradventure, it was the law of life.
Robbo, Lenin and the Bolsheviks would seem to qualify as ‘fellow travelers’ under your definition since they also had the same goal as us – only it was via a one party dictatorship whose goal was relegated to a far distant future. Many leftists pay lip service to common ownership and democratic control but don’t really ever believe it to be possible.
