TrueScotsman
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“He is going to spend all the time insulting and using diatribes, bulling”
Pot, meet kettle. What a snow flake. You hurl mud at me incessantly, I sling a little back and you cry to mummy. Run away child, the adults are talking.
“and he does not have any respect for anybody”
Not anybody on this thread. You have to earn respect. None of you are worthy.
“he did not come to this forum to learn and to have political discussions”
Since you have me on your fainting couch, can you help me with my daddy issues?
“He just stop supporting USA capitalism to support Chinese capitalism”
China is a mixed economy. Marx believed the productive forces of capitalism need to be unleashed before the transition to socialism and communism. True or false?
“it is like dealing with a Trumpist or a member of the QAnon group, or an Evangelical”
How so? What views of theirs have you heard me share?
“He takes other people’s messages and takes them out of context and split them into pieces and the message is completely distorted.”
Rubbish, I allow you to hang yourself with your own rope.
“He is a very dishonest debater”
Writes the person who routinely makes up things about me. You’ve some nerve.
“you are the real fool and you publish all kinds of conspiracy theories”
I haven’t written about any conspiracy theories. Conspiracy facts certainly, theories…not a one.
“You are bringing things that took place during the period of the cold war”
Your naivete is so profound it’s almost touching. Are you honestly that smooth brained that you think the CIA ceased all operations upon the fall of the USSR?
“The Stalinist parties also infiltrated agents”
The topic is Hong Kong. Do pay attention.
“Latin America is considered as the backdoor of the Chinese capitalists”
By whom?
“and they have large investments in Chile”
How dare Chile be assisted to develop. The wretches should know their proper place and be grateful for their opportunity to dine upon table scraps.
“and the Chinese fishing industry is destroying the life of the local fishermen”
Citation needed.
“and they are taking the natural resources of the Orinoco basin”
What do you mean “taking”. Are you saying no payment is involved? Provide citations for your claims.
“those are capitalists agents too, and also China is spreading their military and security agents in the region”
Bullshit. Citation needed.
“Now, how do you know that the workers union in Hong Kong are infiltrated by the CIA?”
Because it’s on the NED website you knucklehead. You know, the one I linked to? You’re so dumb I don’t know how you remember to breathe.
“What about the workers union who supported the government of China are they infiltrated by Chinese agents?”
And how is that at all relevant to the topic at hand?
“If the one-party rule is a democracy, the Nazis one-party rule is democracy too”
Hitler Card logical fallacy. Do better.
https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html
“along with extreme nationalism”
Are you saying that the Chinese state sanctions and encourages extreme nationalism? Provide evidence for your deluded claim.
“one-party rule is power from the top to the bottom is not the opposite way”
There are multiple political parties in China and they play an important role in the governing of the country. But you, a deluded, ignorant racist knows nothing of such things. Below is an excellent link on the issue, but I don’t think you’ve the mental capacity to read it. Shame, you’d actually learn something.
https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/what-do-chinas-democratic-parties-actually-do/
“Under one-party rules workers, all decisions are made from the top and workers are not part of the decision process.”
Just one more thing you’re wrong about. Please stop pretending to have any knowledge pertaining to this subject. You’re just embarrassing yourself.
https://thesaker.is/sitrep-how-democratic-is-china/
“Probably a small country known as Costa Rica in Central America is more democratic than China and people have always elected right-wingers.”
And unicorns probably fart rainbows. I mean, we’re just making things up here, right?
“The article that you published did not mention anything about the International Working Union”
Are you retarded or did your mother just drop you on your head one too many times as an infant? We’re talking about Hong Kong.
“We do not support any type of government.”
Which is why your party is and will forever remain an abject failure. You will never come close to gaining power because you are a gaggle of reactionary know nothings. Thankfully there are serious socialists aplenty whose views are nowhere near as toxic and ignorant as your own.
“A so-called socialist country is against the only
class which can establish socialism, and against
the economic organizations of the working class
known as trade unions or syndicates.”Is your brain broken MS? The Confederation is a front for the CIA. No wonder you people are so irrelevant.
“supporters of the dictatorship of China”
China is not a dictatorship, it’s one of the most democratic countries on the planet with 96 per cent approval of its government. But you, think you’ve the right to tell 1.4 billion people how to live. They all think you kind annoying gnats, as do I.
“the same thing was done by the USA in Latin
America,”Yes, I’ve no doubt the CIA was infiltrating unions there too. But you’re so daft, you probably cheered it on!
“TS “ A conspiracist? Really? What conspiracy are you claiming I adhere to?”
So far I’ve noted:
Holocaust denial”I’ve made no mention of the Holocaust. Good Pinocchio do point to my discussion of the topic.
“Denial of the Katyn Forest massacre”
Reading comprehension clearly isn’t something you’re good at. I have not denied the massacre. I have just noted correctly, that it was a propaganda operation carried out by the Nazis. If you believe Goebbels’ version of events then all the power to you, comrade.
“Denial of the Stalinist show trials”
Nope, didn’t deny them either.
“Denial of the Ukrainian famine”
You mean the Soviet famine? Never even mentioned it.
“Denial of the massacre resulting from the Cuktural Revolution……
Again, made no mention of the “Cuktural” Revolution.
You clearly keep a collection of phantoms in your head with whom you like to converse. There’s medication for that you know? For your own sake, please see a doctor.
“I see the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions has decided to dissolve itself.”
The Confederation is a tool of the US. It receives NED (CIA) funding. As such it does not operate in the interests of HK workers but in the interests of Washington DC.
The NED provides funding “to strengthen the Confederation of Trade Unions, a key component of Hong Kong’s democracy movement”
https://nedprogramsinhk.blogspot.com/2016/08/ned-grants-to-hong-kong-1994-to-2015.html
The US has a long history of sponsoring trade unions in countries it targets for regime change. How the CIA infiltrates trade unions…
https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/06/how-the-cia-infiltrates-trade-unions/
You’ve been played for a fool. But go ahead, shoot the messenger, I deal with knuckleheads every day of my life.
“And you have no understanding of the SPGB’s position whatsoever.”
Admittedly at first I did not but now I do. Your position is that every socialist on earth is evil but for your tiny bunch of naval gazers.
“In your fervid imagination, to attack a blatantly undemocratic capitalist regime such as exists in China”
On the contrary, China is one of the most democratic countries on the planet. It is a mixed economy but has a communist government. The capitalists do not run the country. Your description of China is faulty.
https://thesaker.is/sitrep-how-democratic-is-china/
“translates into support for the capitalist critics of that regime – other capitalist regimes such as the US etc. What utter rubbish!”
If you credulously parrot the regime change narratives of the imperial core countries then yes, you absolutely do support those capitalist regimes. Their narratives at any rate. Rubbish it ain’t.
“The SPGB’s position is crystal clear: a plague on all their houses!”
Indeed, which is why your party is nothing but a parody of a meme of the sectarian left.
“We are equally critical of western capitalist regimes as we are of other capitalist regimes. We do not take sides in inter-capitalist rivalries”
China is a mixed economy. It has a communist government. The capitalists do not rule the nation. Marx himself argued that capitalism was a necessary precondition for communism did he not?
“As a non-Marxist or non-socialist, you seem to have little or no understanding of what capitalism is. In broad Marxian terms, capitalism equates with a system of generalised wage labour.”
Wages are still acceptable in a socialist economy.
“Beijing now boasts more billionaires than any other city in the world including New York. Some “communist” country!”
China has never claimed to be a communist country. It has a mixed economy but is ruled by a communist party. They will be communist by 2121.
“Yet incredibly, you wildly imagine that China is ruled by a “communist party” bent on establishing communism by 2121.”
They are indeed. You know more than the Chinese themselves?
“The red bourgeoisie in their “revolution from above” abandoned the old and increasingly inefficient command economy Stalinist model of capitalist accumulation in favour of a more corporatist model.”
Indeed. The CCP has been taking notes. They will not repeat the mistakes of the USSR.
“A large chunk of the modern oligarchs in Russia and Eastern Europe were former high ranking members of the pseudo communist parties who used their connections to enrich themselves spectacularly in the wake of the Soviet collapse.”
The USSR did not collapse it was betrayed. A referendum was held. A huge majority voted to retain the USSR. The referendum was ignored and the Union dissolved.
“The same goes for modern-day China. All the talk there of “Marxism” is just window dressing. The CPC has no more intention of introducing full communism there”
Since you have a crystal ball what are next week’s lotto numbers? I wouldn’t mind an early retirement.
“as you naively seem to imagine, than the so-called “National Socialists” in Germany in the 1930s intended to introduce socialism.”
The Hitler Card logical fallacy.
https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html
“No ruling class has ever voluntarily sought its own demise by taking steps to introduce a classless society.”
The CCP are committed Marxists, that’s exactly what they’re going to do.
“And then finally there is all the nonsense you talk about “imperialism”. Why is it that so many leftists witter on inanely about imperialism as if that was the problem and not capitalism?”
Both are problems. You think ancient Rome wasn’t a problem to its neighbours?
“They mistake the form for the substance and are thus engaged in a continuous display of mere shadow boxing.”
I mistake nothing. I condemn imperialism because of the human misery that results. It’s basic human decency.
“Every country in the world is manifestly or latently imperialist”
Not China.
https://thechinawiki.com/2021/03/17/why-china-is-not-imperialist/
“China with its Belt and Road initiative etc is a major imperialist power”
No, it is not. See above.
“you woefully fail to understand the imperialist nature of the appalling capitalist dictatorship you so avidly support”
Erm, no I don’t. You don’t know the first thing about China. I’d say it’s partly racist chauvinism and partly reactionary sectarianism. Whatever the case, it adds up to 100% misunderstanding.
“TS has failed to understand my earlier statement, “goodbye and good riddance” and he keeps jumping up and down like a little man, shouting out, “look at me…look at me”, expecting a response.”
Oh, you’ve rage quit have you Alan? I’m crestfallen. Very well, like the cat playing with the mouse, I’ve had my fun.
A message to anyone reading this who is not a member of the TSPGB cult:
Alan, and his merry band of reactionaries are frauds. They have no conception of working class solidarity nor solidarity with the oppressed targets of western imperialism. There is a fundamental difference between opposing western imperialist attacks on other nations and being supporters of those nations’ regimes. The overwhelming victims of such western aggression are the working classes therein. Alan, and his tribe of fellow misfits are so reactionary that they not only parrot the narratives vomited up by the western imperialist propaganda machine against targeted nations, they actively smear those who attempt to shine a light on it. They are class enemies and you should run for the door.
China, through Hong Kong, was targeted for such aggression and similar acts are taking place across SE Asia from Myanmar and Malaysia to Cambodia and Thailand. You will learn nothing from the jokers populating this site on any of this. On the contrary they will cheer-lead for the aggressors and claim any imperialist success as a win for freedom. They are western chauvinists and morons.
“The best solution is to stop answering his provocations Do not feed the troll, let him cook in his own sauce”
Indeed, which is why I have been ignoring you MS. You have contributed nothing of interest to this conversation whatsoever.
“Why TS insists black is white and clings to disproven facts shows the difficulty we are up against.”
I’m a conspiricist and cling to disproven facts? Now, you keep saying that Alan yet you have repeatedly failed to articulate what conspiracy I subscribe to and what “disproven facts” I am guilty of grasping at. Why is that Alan? You have the temerity to accuse me of thought crimes yet fail to level any specific charges against me. A funny kind of Star Chamber this one. I can only imagine you behave in such a manner because you are afraid of the inevitable educational beat down that would come your way. I don’t blame you, you are already bloody and bruised from our encounter. Nevertheless, I think it only fair you allow the accused to defend themselves. Or is fairness another thing you don’t believe in?
“Trump supporters have not been easily convinced that much of the ‘fake’ news is not all fake and that Trump indeed lost the election.”
Lucky for me I’m not a Trump supporter then. All this passive aggressive guilt by association schtick really is wearing thin, Alan. FFS man, what on earth is my thought crime?
“That does not mean we don’t have our own issues with the media. But it doesn’t mean we dismiss the logic of the scientific method, of critical thinking and to make the world conform to our personal perception of it.”
Yet again, vague accusations. There’s no meat on those bones, Alan. Spit it out man, what untruths and what conspiracies are you accusing me of subscribing to? It’s getting painfully obvious that you yourself, don’t even know. And you accuse me of faulty thinking? At least I can articulate my views. You should try it sometime.
“I have indicated TS shares all the traits of a conspiracist and is beyond any reasoning.”
A conspiracist? Really? What conspiracy are you claiming I adhere to? I have provided ample evidence to support just about every claim I’ve made on this thread. You, on the other hand, simply ignore the copious number of inconvenient facts that contradict your less than stellar thinking. It is so easy to expose imperialist talking points such as those you spout I’m sure I could do it blind folded. Which is why, no doubt, you’re too afraid to continue engaging with me. Because I’ve made you look the fool. Very easy to do by the way.
“He is no different from the followers of Natural News and Dr. Mercola other than he drapes himself in the Chinese flag.”
I have no idea who you are talking about and nor do I care. You are a cowardly reactionary who snipes from the sidelines rather than engage in debate like a grown up. Sad little budgie.
“ALB, coming late to this thread, you should be aware that Wikipedia cannot be cited as a reliable source no matter how basic the information is”
Pinocchio would be proud of your interpretation of the truth Alan. My original statement was more nuanced than that. But then, if you admitted as much you’d look the fool you are. Since you’ve chosen to retread this tired path let’s do so. Wikipedia is not a reliable source, it even states as much on its own website. So who you gonna believe, me or Wikipedia?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source
“it is infiltrated by the CIA and other nefarious conspirators.”
In your fevered dreams you imagine that you are ridiculing me. Instead, you make yourself the laughing stock. Remember, when you point a finger, three are pointed back at you. There is ample evidence supporting my claim, evidence you have made no attempt to refute. Why is that Alan? Is it because you cannot?
Wikipedia formally censors The Grayzone as regime-change advocates monopolize editing
Meet Wikipedia’s Ayn Rand-loving founder and Wikimedia Foundation’s regime-change operative CEO
“He is a contrarian outlier and outright liar.”
A contrarian? Perhaps. Outright liar? Well, them’s fighting words. What, pray tell, have I lied about?
