TrueScotsman
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“What is missing from the charges listed by the Chinese government against the members of the pro-democracy movement is any mention of funding from the USA.”
You read Chinese now do you Alan?
Beijing is well aware of US financing of protest groups in China because Washington was doing it back in 2014.
“During the 2014 Occupy protests, Beijing made a big deal out of NED influence in the protests and the foreign influence they said it represented. The NED official, Greve, even told the U.S. government’s Voice of America outlet that “activists know the risks of working with NED partners” in Hong Kong, but do it anyway.”
“But were they paid and bribed to protest? Were their organisation subsidised to subvert the Chinese authorities? It seems not.”
Certainly CGTN seemed to think so. Alan would have to believe that the Chinese state broadcaster was well aware of CIA, sorry NED funding, but the Chinese state is not. If that’s so then I’ve got a bridge for sale and it’s going cheap.
“The NED is bankrolling Hong Kong “pro-democracy” and anti-Beijing groups such as the Solidarity Center (SC), the National Democratic Institute (NDI) and Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor to the tune of millions. In 2018 alone the NED reports giving 155,000 U.S. dollars to the SC and 200,000 U.S. dollars to the NDI.”
“A plague on all of them.”
Alan in a nutshell. Condemning all socialists. And the winner of “purist snowflake” award is (drum-roll)…Alan! (Round of applause)
“I scour the internet to give fuller explanation to your claims.”
Alan looks for decade old ambiguous stories to give an explanation? No, he does so because he is a reactionary. He ignores the mountain of benefits stemming from Africa/China relations instead like a rat on cheese focusing on the minority of negative interactions.
“Flooding the African market with cheap manufactured products that undercut the local makers thus driving them out of business.”
Right, because Africa has a cell phone manufacturing industry, an electronics manufacturing industry, a white goods manufacturing industry, etc, etc? I’m sure Alan doesn’t mind consuming products manufactured cheaply thanks to China’s massive economies of scale but those Negroes in Africa, well, they shouldn’t be allowed.
“Of course, there is a lot of infrastructure being built by the Chinese in Africa. I already mentioned an unnecessary railway line in Kenya.”
Alan did mention the railway but fails to explain that it was Kenya’s president who was pushing for the project, not the Chinese and that the funding for the third stage of the line, thought necessary to make it fully commercially viable, was withheld because Uganda was refusing to cooperate.
“Concerns over SGR’s viability arise from the fact that Uganda has shown little enthusiasm for the grand project and has more recently been spending millions of dollars in the refurbishment of its rusty metre gauge railway network.
It is Beijing’s assessment that without Uganda, whose participation is key to connecting South Sudan and Rwanda to the Indian Ocean port of Mombasa, the SGR’s viability is grossly undermined.”
Why Uganda cut off its nose to spite its face is anybodies guess but I think it’s probably got something to do with the wily US and its military presence in the country.
“But those ports and roads and factories aren’t gree gifts.”
Yet one more lie Alan tells as he froths against China like Cujo the rabid St-Bernard. Indeed China has gifted Africa hundreds of millions of dollars worth of free infrastructure. Alan’s brain, stewed in a lifetime of hatred of all socialists, can’t imagine actual socialists actually acting socialist. He’s a fraud. Anyone who considers him a mentor should seriously reconsider.
China’s gifts to Africa: Governmental buildings and stadiums
“African nations are borrowing from Chinese commercial banks and building huge debts and interest repayments.”
I’ve already exposed the “Chinese debt trap diplomacy” lie. A lie cooked up in Washington that Alan credulously vomits up like a bad batch of leftover sushi.
“Don’t make the mistake of thinking China philanthropic and benevolent. They insist on a hefty return for their investment.”
Imperialist propaganda debunked a thousand times over. That’s Alan, faux-socialist, spreader of disinformation, maker of liberals.
“But his report on Uzumba, Mashonaland East province, and the Chinese company, Heijin Mining appears to hold up from other sources.”
A legal dispute over a mining license. What of it?
In order to condemn China’s role in Africa Alan scours the internet for stories no matter how old or how ambiguous. He makes no mention of the fact that extractive industries account for the minority of Chinese investments in Africa. What of the other 60% of investments? Well, he conveniently fails to make mention of these or the benefits that have accrued to African people from them. For every decade old story he posts I can post ten telling of hospitals built:
“China to build 100 hospitals, clinics in Africa Wednesday, October 7, 2015 Cape Town – The Chinese government has announced that it will build 100 hospitals and clinics across the African continent has part of a plan to improve health systems and be prepared for future disease outbreaks.”
towns electrified:
“Now, it is emerging one of the biggest builders of power projects in sub-Saharan Africa, where some 635 million people are off grid. Over the past five years, Chinese companies built 7GW of generation capacity on the continent – 30% of new installations – according to a report published by the International Energy Agency on Tuesday.”
or ports established:
“at least 46 existing or planned port projects in sub-Saharan Africa with some Chinese involvement.”
Vijay Prashad sums up people such as Alan thusly…
“They’re using Marxism to push anti-Marxism and open a door therefore for left-wing people to become liberals.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
The China bashing industry is quite lucrative, no doubt Dr Masimba Mavaza of Little Oakley, England (author of the claptrap you’ve linked to above) is cashing in. Kooks such as him abounded during the last cold war too. Your credulity is almost touching, Alan.
““At Chinese-run mines in Zambia’s copper belt workers must work for two years before they get safety helmets.” Bullshit.
Not according to The Economist
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2011/04/20/trying-to-pull-together
(registration required)”The Economist provides no evidence for its claim. It probably comes from the anonymously published article at faceofmalawi.com which also provides no evidence. So, you point to a decade old, anonymously sourced allegation as proof that China is as imperialist as the US and Europe? I’m still calling bullshit.
Beijing is aware of the bad practices carried out by some members of its fishing fleet and has been cracking down on them.
“In West Africa, however, Chinese vessels have been accused of depleting stocks, using opaque measures to obtain licenses, and threatening the livelihood of fishermen. Beijing, increasingly aware of these practices, has cracked down by removing subsidies and revoking the licenses of fishing firms conducting illegal activities.”
https://qz.com/africa/1506419/somalia-gives-fishing-license-to-31-china-vessels/
Beijing is working in conjunction with marine scientists and environmental groups to improve its fishing practices.
China “debt-trap diplomacy” is a myth cooked up in Washington.
https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/china-s-debt-trap-diplomacy-is-little-more-than-a-fantasy-32418
African nations welcome Chinese development.
“And note how TS reproaches the use of the Guardian and anonymous quotes but happily cites a very right-wing newspaper using hearsay.”
Alan is so Sino-phobic that he now bizarrely believes right-wing newspapers report favourably on China. Alan should not give up his day job, eyewitness testimony is not hearsay.
“At Chinese-run mines in Zambia’s copper belt workers must work for two years before they get safety helmets.”
Bullshit.
“In 2010, a Chinese supervisor at the Collum Coal mine in Southern Province shot thirteen Zambians. The workers at the mine were complaining against the state of safety standards in the mines and their low wages.”
People in fear for their lives will act to save their lives. Or do you think rocks are harmless, kind of like nerf balls?
“A witness to the incident said miners had thrown rocks before the shooting started.”
To extrapolate from two instances of violence out of hundreds if not thousands of projects that China is therefore just as bad as the Capitalist powers is juvenile in the extreme. But I’d expect nothing less from Alan.
“The top 30 Chinese billionaires have an accumulated wealth of 860 billion dollars. In what world does that $860 billion not pull strings!”
Ask Jack Ma what kind of strings it pulls.
“The only way for a communist society to exist is without dictatorship or totalitarianism. The very definition of communism excludes both dictatorship and totalitarianism: it requires political and economic power to be shared by all citizens.
Though several countries have aspired to be communist, none has achieved it yet. The main reasons for their slow progress are
Immature citizens: communism requires everyone to be responsible for every aspect of government, commerce and civil life. This requires not only great maturity but considerable prosperity: in order to participate fully, everyone needs a good education and plenty of leisure time to devote to running the country and its economy.
China has the most mature population in the world, a history of competent government and its government is dedicated to achieving communism. China experimented with communism under Mao but concluded that they needed much better educated people, greater prosperity and leisure and more experience running a large, complex economy first, before they could advance towards communism.
So they’ve been devoting the last 40 years to education and prosperity and, by June 1, 2021: everyone will have an education, paid employment, more than enough food and clothing, access to medical services, old-age support, a home and a comfortable life.
And they have not lost sight of their eventual goal. In his report to the 19th Party Congress, President Xi mentioned two intermediate dates: 2035 (modern socialist country) and 2049 (mastery of all aspects of life: economic, social and technical).
He also mentioned the next centenary, 2121. By then, the government hopes, the population will be mature, well-educated prosperous and ready to assume responsibility for communist life. It’s a radical vision, as this quote (which Mao loved to repeat) makes clear:
Now to have states, families, and selves is to allow each individual to maintain a sphere of selfishness. This infracts utterly the Universal Principle, gongli, and impedes progress. …
Therefore, not only states should be abolished, so that there would be no more struggle between the strong and the weak; families should also be done away with, so that there would no longer be inequality of love and affection [among men]; and, finally, selfishness itself should be banished, so that goods and services would not be used for private ends. …
The only [true way] is sharing the world in common by all (tienxia weigong) …
To share in common is to treat each and every one alike. There should be no distinction between high and low, no discrepancy between rich and poor, no segregation of human races, no inequality between sexes. …
All should be educated and supported with the common property; none should depend on private possession. … This is the way of the Great Community. [Kang Youwei, Liyun Zhu called Datong Shu].”
“Capitalism is inherently undemocratic and capitalism is worldwide and most definitely includes China. Ergo, the regime there is not democratic”
I dispute your contention that China is a capitalist country. It is not. It has a mixed economy but the capitalist class does not pull the strings there. The CCP does. Yes, there are wealthy members but they are a tiny fraction of the 6.5 thousand strong CPPCC and and NPC.
“based on a top-down model of decision making”
I don’t know how often this bears repeating, the Chinese model is one of the most democratic in the world. It is extremely responsive and elections are held up and down the system. You haven’t a clue about any of this yet in your chauvinism claim it is undemocratic. How the hell would you know?
“I don’t care what the SCMP is. Are the facts that it provides true or false?”
Well, that’s the $64,000 question, isn’t it? How are we to know if the sources of the allegations are anonymous?
“There are plenty of other sources I could equally quote that come to the same conclusion.”
Really, well, if they put their names to their claims we can examine them can’t we? So, provide some more sources. It should be easy, there are “plenty” after all.
“It’s rich you talking about fascism when you are an avid supporter of what is, in any case, a semi-fascist state capitalist regime”
Right, and I suppose the USSR was fascist too, am I right?
“This only goes to show what a muddlehead you are. The working class in the UK or the US voted in their governments.”
Support for the US and UK governments is in the toilet. Your analogy is farcical.
“according to your ridiculous logic, we should not be critical of the governments of the UK or the US because to do so would be to express “opposition to the working classes” in these countries.”
Straw-man fallacy. I said no such thing.
“Also, like the typical bourgeois bootlicker you are you attribute the …erm … rising living standards of Chinese workers to the CCP – not the working class that produces the wealth in society.”
China only has its sovereignty because of the CCP and the peasant army its land reform measures inspired. If the Party had not come to power and instead the capitalists had won the country would look something like India where half the population goes hungry.
You call me a bootlicker and claim to care for the working classes of China. What a joke. Were it left to the likes of reactionary, sectarian snowflakes such as yourself the revolutionary movement would have been throttled in its cradle. You couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery let alone a peoples’ war against both fascist Japan and the nationalists of the Kuomintang. Your “organisation” consists of blowing smoke up one anothers’ arses and making brave declarations of your purity. Well, no one cares, so engage in whatever puffery floats your boat while enjoying the view from the cheap seats.
“And, no, opposition to this regime is not in the least “racist””
Yeah, it is. You think you know better than the “ignorant yellow hordes”. Well guess what, they’re Marxists but one’s with balls. So go sip a glass of chardonnay or stuff your maw with another slice of smashed avocado toast while the Chinese get on with the real work of building high speed rail across the planet, lighting up the night in places that have never known electricity, lifting the destitute out of poverty and keeping the big bad USA at bay.
“Firstly, as stated before, the figure of 96 percent means virtually nothing in what is a de facto one-party state.”
It means everything you chauvinist mouth breather. It means they want your kind to leave them the hell alone. Get your own house in order before telling others’ how they should live in theirs. Remind me, how influential are you miserable wastrels at home?
“I fully support the Chinese workers in their class struggles against their Chinese capitalist bosses.”
No, you don’t, you just bloviate. Nothing more nothing less. The Chinese laugh at the stupid round eye, such as yourself, who thinks he knows how they should organise their 5,000 year old civilisation. Your not even the butt of a joke, you’re just an arse.
“It’s just that most of them currently hold views that are actually antithetical to their interests.”
No, it is you who holds views that are antithetical to workers’ interests. You hurl invective and insult at all attempts to make socialism in the world. You are an enemy of the worker and ally of the capitalist. The bile spewing forth from your ridiculous little crew of misfits is indistinguishable from that of a Murdoch rag. You are naive beyond belief. A meme of a parody of sectarian nihilism.
“do not exhibit a savior complex of any kind.”
No, the only trait you exhibit is that of know nothing naval gazer.
“The emancipation of the working class must be carried out by the working class itself, not some Leninist vangaurd”
Really, and when has that ever worked out? We’ve got 50 years til climate collapse, how’s that self emancipation thing looking right about now?
“China is a 100% capitalist economy based on a mixture of corporate and state capitalist control and ownership of this economy.”
Nope, it’s not.
“It is based on a system of generalised wage labour”
As quoted earlier that is not inconsistent with socialism. Moreover, China is on the road to communism. You on the other hand are on the road to oblivion. Think I know which destination I prefer.
“therefore it is fully capitalist from a Marxian standpoint.”
No, it isn’t.
“There is zero possibility of the regime, which profits handsomely from this arrangement and bends over backward to accommodate the billionaire class in its ranks, ever working towards full communism.”
Just shows how little you know.
“The first step on the road to achieving full communism will be to democratically overthrow this obnoxious anti-working-class regime in China you so cravenly admire but which represents an, as yet formidable, obstacle on the road to communism”
How, and replace it with what? Anyway, I dare you to try. And as your life force bleeds away I hope you consider the bad life choices you’ve made. Oh, but wait, you’re a reactionary coward, I’m sure you’ll just be calling for other reactionaries to throw their lives away in your stead.
“The SCMP is Hong Kong-based and its parent company is the Alibaba group which is owned by Jack Ma”
My bad. Hostile to the mainland nevertheless.
“China IS in effect a one-party authoritarian state.”
All states are authoritarian. Are you that politically naive as to think otherwise? Do tell me, how is the working class to wrest control of society from the bourgeoisie without a resort to authoritarianism? You just gonna ask them pretty please to give up their position in the hierarchy?
“True, there are on paper 8 other small political parties but…They are fronts for the purpose of window dressing the regime as something less dictatorial than it is actually is.”
Proving you know nothing about the role of the parties even though I went to the effort of providing a a very good link on the subject for your edification. Your ignorance thus, is willful.
“No genuine opposition to the regime is legally permitted and is systemically weeded out of the minor parties by the regime itself”
Perhaps that’s how things work in your fever dreams, talk about solipsism! The reality world is a little different. There’s a huge amount of disagreement that takes place within the Chinese political system. You’d know that if you took anytime whatsoever to examine it. But you are an ideologue. Any information that contradicts the narrative running your brain automatically causes an error alert.
You link to an article by the South China Morning Post on the political opposition. The Post is a Taiwanese publication. Taiwan, the home to the fleeing fascist Kuomintang. (Funny how you people cuddle up to fascists on the regular). You expect people to take the Post’s analysis on this subject seriously? You’re a joker.
“Contrary to what you claim these minor parties play no important role in the government of the country.”
Completely false. Contradicted at length in the linked article. To reiterate, you are willfully ignorant.
“I note you have nothing to say about the active suppression of Marxists by the Chinese authorities”
Because the linked article was nothing but fabulism. It deferred to the above mentioned SCMP and counted as its sources “anonymous” professors “too afraid” to put their names on record. In other words, liars.
“Stop with your craven apologizing for this thoroughly obnoxious anti-democratic and anti-working class regime that is the Chinese state capitalist regime.”
The Chinese working classes support their government. Your opposition to that government is opposition to the working classes themselves. They are not interested in the views of fanatical sectarian snowflakes. They want rising living standards and sovereignty. Thanks to the CCP they have both.
“And, no, opposition to this regime is not in the least “racist””
Yeah, it is. In your view the 96 per cent of the population who support their government are ignorant children, too stupid to know what is in their best interests. You, on the other hand, with your white savior complex believe you can ride in on your white charger and free the dirty hordes from their infantile false consciousness…or something like that, right?
“Unlike you, I am not selective in the capitalist regimes I oppose”
(Yawn.) China’s is a mixed economy with a communist party run government. They are working towards full communism by 2121. Meanwhile your party will remain a steadfast bastion of irrelevancy. Bravo!
