TrueScotsman
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“There was nothing of substance that was convincing or stood up to scrutiny.”
I don’t know which article of Furr’s you claim not to have read but merely skimmed, but this one is 170 pages long. You, arbiter of truth, trained historian, expert in Soviet history pontificate from your perch atop your ivory tower that there is “nothing of substance” in it? You turn arrogance up to eleven! Alan, friend of the CIA, wannabe failed lawyer, has made his judgement! He skimmed the article, don’t you know?! LOL.
You would have to read the entire document to be able to make such a claim. Your analysis would fail a first year high school history class. As the article criticising Furr’s detractors aptly put it, you’ve made nothing but vague pronouncements and completely ignore the copious evidence. You do this because the evidence is damning. Back to the stupid factory Alan, your contributions there are sorely missed.
“So I’ll take that’s a long winded way of you saying that you can’t answer the question?”
Well, I wouldn’t expect anyone of your pedigree and mental acuity to be able to assimilate nuance. Reading comprehension is difficult for your kind after all. So, take it however you like.
“So can you please explain why did the Chinese “communist” Party introduce a system which, by their definition, was less effective than their claimed system of underdeveloped socialism?”
Unlike you and your pathetic band of misfits, sorry party, the CPC is actually responsible for improving the lives of 1.4 billion people. Their party is one of the few in human history to have ever made the attempt to bring about a socialist society. There is no manual for doing so. They operate in the real world not the utopian fantasy world you envision.
In the real world compromises must be made and challenges overcome. Mistakes will inevitably be made. As will advancements. Building socialism is a process. You will never understand this. Instead you live in la-la land with your fellow naval gazers believing yourself keeper of the holy flame of true Marxism. Such arrogance.
While the Chinese are busy building socialism you and your party are busy manufacturing liberals. You are obscurantist, broken brained memes of the sectarian left. Instead of good faith criticism for other socialist projects you only condemn. You are the enemy of Marxists everywhere and the ally of reactionaries everywhere. Your party is worthy of nothing but contempt and derision. You are hypocrites all and what’s more, haven’t a sense of humor between the lot of you. You are boring. LOL
“The debate with Furr is all about the production of actual evidence which consists of more than simply guilt by association and confessions, all circumstantial”
Firstly, you’ve never read a word of Furr so you’ve zero authority to criticise him. Second, you think confessions aren’t evidence?! In what world do you live in, man? Confessions absolutely ARE evidence. Thank God you’re not a lawyer. First you confuse hearsay with eye-witness testimony then you claim confessions aren’t evidence? Don’t give up your day job. The stupid-factory needs your valuable labor.
“It is interesting that you have still not answered the question about the “reintroduction” of capitalism”
Rubbish, I’ve answered the question multiple times. They’re developing the productive forces. This approach is consistent with Marxism.
“The debate on Grover Furr is always about form – the person, his writing style, his alleged motives, his allege dishonesty or lack of qualifications, and never about content – the evidence presented, what it shows, and whether it’s true or not. The infantile pseudo-left responds to science with provocation, facts with hostility, reason with insults, ideological questions with personal attacks, and the deep questions posed by Furr’s work with shallow criticisms.”
“After all he couldn’t have achieved such control over the Soviet Union”
And thank God they did. If the workers had followed the advice of clowns like you they’d have been crushed by the Whites and the 17 foreign armies that invaded to restore tsarism. I don’t know where this high opinion you people have of yourselves originates from but it really is comical.
“I think it’s unfair on fanatics to call TS one. TS is just your common or garden pillock.”
The special needs kid is back! Here’s a candy child, run along and play…on the road.
“So, you just discovered one little article about Stalin by one of his supporters”
The CIA said the same thing. Are you claiming the CIA supported Stalin? LOL
So, the CIA acknowledged that Stalin wasn’t a dictator
byu/AngoPower28 instupidpol“the leftist do not apply the same rules to the dictators of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, and China, we might also say that Stalin”
Stalin was not a dictator. Anyone who believes he was knows nothing of real existing history.
“Actually Khrushchev said in 1960 that Russia would achieve communism by 1980, in only 20 years time”
And your party has been around how long? Over a century? And what has it achieved? Oh, that’s right…nothing.
“The dictators of your favoured system”
China is not a “dictatorship”. The very idea is laughable. Only fools drunk on western propaganda narratives believe such ridiculousness.
“have claimed that China exists as an underdeveloped Socialist Society.”
20 years ago China’s GDP was around that of Haiti. China’s is indeed still a developing nation as its brand of socialism. It is on track to be fully socialist by 2121.
“(Their claim has been proven from their own publicity and has been shown beyond doubt on this thread)”
This thread has shown no such thing.
“Yet as you have conceded Chinese society has all the hallmarks of capitalist society”
I’ve conceded no such thing. Though a wealthy elite does indeed exist, it does not pull the strings and is being reined in as we speak. 50% of the population is employed by the state the surplus value of their work going to improving the lives of the Chinese people and populations of other developing nations.
“1 China (which you characterise as a mixed economy) has retreated away from being an underdeveloped Socialist society”
No, they allowed capitalism to operate under tight constraints in order to build up the productive forces required to implement socialism. This is entirely consistent with Marxist theory. Recognising that capitalism rapidly bifurcates society economically, the CCP is now tightening the screws regarding inequality which it is uniquely placed to do. That is not something a capitalist government would undertake.
“2 China has never been a Socialist society of any type (in fact there is only one basis to socialism which is common ownership of the means of production)”
As stated, 50% of the population works in state industries. The commanding heights of the economy and all land are in the hands of the people. You far left reactionaries will never understand that socialism is a process.
The kind of revolution you imagine has never succeeded yet you still cling to your delusions that it will. As Einstein said, it’s the definition of insanity. Your party has failed for over a century to achieve anything. You’re all a bunch of naval gazers who do nothing but condemn socialist and communist parties that have succeeded where you have failed. You have no understanding of the real world or how it operates. Compromise is necessary in a world run by an imperial hegemon that will rain death and destruction down on any socialist experiment. You are comically naive if you think a spontaneous workers’ uprising could stand up to the hegemon. Lenin described you people perfectly as suffering from an infantile disorder.
