TrueScotsman
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““This is liberation, not a war!””
There you go again, parroting bourgeois MSM lies. What a good boy, here’s a scooby snack.
“But newly released testimony from one of the incident’s main witnesses punctures the official narrative about a targeted Russian airstrike on the hospital. The witness account indicates the hospital had been turned into a base of operations by Ukrainian military forces and was not targeted in an airstrike, as Western media claimed. Her testimony also raised serious questions about whether at least some elements of the event were staged for propaganda purposes – and with the cooperation of the Associated Press.”
And this from the notoriously pro-Russian Washington Post…
“But Ukraine’s strategy of placing heavy military equipment and other fortifications in civilian zones could weaken Western and Ukrainian efforts to hold Russia legally culpable for possible war crimes, said human rights activists and international humanitarian law experts.
“If there is military equipment there and [the Russians] are saying we are launching at this military equipment, it undermines an assertion that they are attacking intentionally civilian objects and civilians,” said Richard Weir, a researcher in Human Rights Watch’s crisis and conflict division, who is working in Ukraine.
Over the past month, Washington Post journalists have witnessed Ukrainian antitank rockets, antiaircraft guns and armored personnel carriers placed near apartment buildings.
The Ukrainian military has “a responsibility under international law” to remove their forces and equipment from civilian-populated areas, and if that is not possible, to move civilians out of those areas, Weir said.
“If they don’t do that, that is a violation of the laws of war,” he added.
On Monday, Ukrainian forces showed a group of journalists a military fortification in a northern residential neighborhood of the capital, near tall apartment buildings, a subway station and shops.
But the line between what constitutes a war crime becomes more blurred if residential neighborhoods are militarized and become battlefields where civilian deaths are inevitable.
“Ukraine cannot use civilian neighborhoods as ‘human shields,’”
“TS, well just for starters there is the speech Putin made in February 2022:
“they sought to destroy our traditional values and force on us their false values that would erode us, our people from within, the attitudes they have been aggressively imposing on their countries, attitudes that are directly leading to degradation and degeneration, because they are contrary to human nature. This is not going to happen.” Do you, TS, believe that homosexuality is contrary to human nature and that it leads to degradation and degeneration?”
I didn’t ask you about Putin’s beliefs on the subject. I asked you what specific laws you were alluding to.
“in 2013 The Russian state passed a “gay propaganda” (Their quote) ban arguing that promotion of LGBT rights was harmful to children. (Do you think that the promotion of LGBT rights is harmful to children?)”
So you are opposed to a law preventing the teaching of gay rights in schools? There was no teaching of gay rights when I went to school. I guess I was unaware that I was actually being oppressed. Were you taught “gay rights” when you were in school?
“The Russian Justice Ministry retorted that the “anti-gay propaganda” laws “have the sole purpose of protecting morals and health of children.” Cleary this conflates homosexuality with child abuse.”
I don’t see how. Homosexuality is not illegal in The Russian Federation. It is just not considered appropriate to teach children about the lifestyle.
“Do you agree with Putin that children can be “taught that a boy can become a girl and vice versa” is monstrous and “on the verge of a crime against humanity.” Quoted and backed up with video footage by the FT.”
His views are his own. Homosexuality is not illegal in the Russian Federation.
“in 2015 Russia also introduced a driving ban prohibiting people with “sexual disorders” including people who were transexual or transgender. Do you approve those bans TS?”
“ICD-10 especially stresses that sexual orientation by itself isn’t considered a personality disorder.”
It sounds like there’s an awful lot of leeway regarding the decree. Again, homosexuality is not criminalised in RF.
“Do you, TS, agree with the statement of Yelena Mizulina Chairman of The Duma Committee on Family, Women and Children, that “Traditional sexual relations are relations between a man and a woman. These relations need special protection”.”
What matters are the laws. Homosexuality is not illegal in RF.
“Perhaps you also agree with her stance on decriminalising Domestic Violence catagorised as “first assaults which cause less serious injuries””
Do stay on topic.
“TS, Having already explained to us previously that the war began in 2014 in a civil war against the two breakaway regions and that the Minsk Talks had broken down, can you explain why it took Putin all those years to invade?”
Putin, by which you mean the Kremlin, did not invade Ukraine, it is liberating it from NATOstani influence.
There are a number or reasons why the Kremlin moved to liberate Ukraine when it did. Principally because of the NATOstani rejection of Russia’s security proposals and of the imminent Ukrainian ethnic cleansing operation in the Donbass. The fact that Zelensky was calling for its being armed with nukes may also have played some role.
“There is much evidence of a low-level war against Russian-speaking inhabitants of Luhansk and Donetz, yet it also took Putin many years to officially recognise their independence.”
This from Quora…
“In 1918 in the course of the Civil War the majorly Russian-Cossack population in Novorossia proclaimed Autonomous Soviet Republics (at the same time as the Whites proclaimed Kuban Republic in Yekaterinodar/today’s Krasnodar), but those were soon incorporated into the RSFSR as ordinary regions (it was hardly reasonable to keep the status of autonomy for people without any specific ethnic identity – it would be same as giving autonomy to London beefeaters or cabmen). By 1920 Lenin handed the coal-rich and industrialized Novorossia over to Ukraine to support her failing economy.
Donbass autonomy status was very short-lived and not sufficiently justified; Donbass didn’t have the status of autonomy in Ukraine and, despite low support to Ukrainian independence in 1991, Donbass didn’t attempt to secede from Ukraine in favor of joining the Union or re-inclusion in Russia. There was no history of active self-determination in Donbass prior to 2014, and as such no legal grounds for Russia to include Donetsk and Lugansk into Russia…
All in all, intervention in Donbass would constitute, and would be perceived as aggression and war. This is not what Russia is looking for. We acknowledge the Donbass political will and resolve, honor their citizenship, provide humanitarian help to population and treat the wounded in Russia’s medical facilities. But we do not invade (neither openly nor secretly), do not provide military aid and do not supply arms to Donbass because we cannot throw ourselves into another nation’s civil war.”
“Was ethnic-cleansing the real reason?”
It was one of the many reasons mentioned previously and certainly the most immediate.
“Doesn’t Russia have its own nazi problem with ultra-nationalism?”
“Russian law mandates punishment for inciting racial and ethnic hatred, and Nazi movements are outlawed in the country.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/denial-holocaust-criminalize-moves-russia-853/
In Ukraine on the other hand Neo-Nazi battalions openly serve in the armed forces.
“Or as we suggest, it was the broader Great Power rivalry of geo-politics in regard to economic and military alliances and the timing involved in those.”
A false dichotomy. Wars are rarely, if ever, fought over a single issue.
“That a proxy war is the reason that Western nations are subsidizing Ukraine’s war and are not urging peace talks.”
I concur with this statement. It is no secret and openly proclaimed in the west.
https://multipolarista.com/2022/03/24/us-official-ukraine-nato-proxy-war-russia/
“TS “So what was the Soviet Union to do after the Nazi invasion? Surrender? You must be joking?”
That is the same answer given by Zelensky.”
This is a statement so asinine I hope you have not made the mistake of reproducing. (Sigh) The Nazis were engaged in a war of extermination. Look up General Plan Ost and the Criminal Orders. The Russians, on the other hand, consider Ukrainians brother Slavs. This is not a war of extermination. This explains why the war is moving so slowly. Were Russia at war with a NATO country it would be a scorched earth campaign. Such is not the case. Most of the infantry fighting in Donbass is done by Donbass militias who want to preserve the lives of their fellow citizens.
“Nor does it explain why the Communist Parties, following Moscow’s party-line still opposed the war when war was declared in 1939 and several European countries were invaded in 1940.”
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/55809
The Soviets did all they could to prevent WW2 up to and including an offer to place a million man army on the Polish/German border. But the Poles refused, fearing they’d lose the land they’d seized from the USSR during the Civil war.
“It is a diatribe because you throw unsubstantiated slurs such as “you are an unprincipled and unctuous charlatan.” and “you are a coward, your answer is yes. You’d willingly walk into the oven because you have no spine.””
“If you cannot recognise the difference in the tone of my replies to you and your own, then sorry, but I pity you.”
It is I who pity you and your gaggle of Quixotic malcontents. You are doomed to whisper at walls the rest of your inglorious days. You deserve such contempt. You call the CIA your friends and shit on all actually existing socialism. I have no respect for you whatsoever.
“do you approve of Putin’s discriminatory stance towards non heterosexual people or not?”
Which policies specifically are you speaking of?
“‘The Russian army was not able to defeat the Taliban”
Probably because they never fought the Taliban.
“and they do not have the military resources to fight against NATO forces in a conventional war’”
Who says so? Don’t listen to them. They’ve no idea what they’re talking about.
“Katyn Forest and Furr’s historical revisionism of the massacre begins here”
The thread was closed before I was able to rebut many of your fanciful claims. Just saying.
“Auschwitz couldn’t be missed. It was the size of a city. The prisoners were imploring Allied planes to bomb”
Lol. The prisoners were imploring the allies to bomb them? How so, by cell phone?
“As a result of this I understand that Russia may declare war on the Ukraine and that all NATO countries will become legitimate targets. Is this just scare mongering or are we all f**ked?”
It’s scaremongering. What’s your source?
“The A bomb explosions were an experiment both Truman and Stalin wanted to see on a live population”
Absolute rubbish. The A bombs were dropped to intimidate the Soviet Union.
“Meanwhile Stalin was carrying out his own massacres, and blaming Katyn on the Germans.”
There was no Katyn massacre and nobody claims there was except in popular propaganda. There were a large number of graves scattered about in rough proximity to Katyn Forest. These graves do not contain prisoners of war from Soviet/Polish hostilities, as there had been no hostilities between the Soviet Union and Poland for nineteen years.
Mentioning the “Katyn Massacre” is handy for publicity but shows a fine disinterest in the reality.
“During both the first period of the 1940 agreement…”
I assume you’re referring to the trade agreement between Germany and the Soviet Union? The trade agreement was crucial for Soviet rearmament. In exchange for Soviet resources the Germans gave the Soviets access to all their military technology. The Soviets would have preferred to get said tech from the “Allied” countries but they were sanctioning the USSR because of the Winter War with Finland. The Winter War war was justified, by the way, as the Soviets realised, correctly, that the Finns were in league with the Nazis.
“Meanwhile Stalin was carrying out his own massacres, and blaming Katyn on the Germans.”
Stalin placed the blame where it was due. Squarely on the heads of the Nazis. Professor Grover Furr has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the official narrative of Soviet responsibility is false.
“No doubt the Putin loving True Scotsman would have at least supported Hitler’s oppression of gay people.”
Oh, big move, playing the “gay card”! So I “love” Putin but I hate gays? Even with your tiny brain you must see the contradiction there, no?
“How convenient it is to avoid the term war.”
Yet again you fail to address what I actually said about the SMO and why it’s not a war. You are probably unaware of the fact but Ukraine does not consider itself at war either. Perhaps you think you know more about the conflict than both belligerents, but I doubt it.
“In Northern Ireland, they called the civil war there, “The Troubles””
And that’s relevant….How?
“TS, this is a 146-page discussion thread that began before the actual invasion. As a latecomer, I don’t expect you to be aware of the details of the long debate that has been conducted before posting your diatribe.”
When I contradict you it’s a diatribe? When you contradict me it’s…What exactly?
“Until it actually began, the consensus was the war would not break out and would be settled by diplomacy.
How wrong most of us were.
And we all admit that miscalculation.”
I too thought there would be no war, provided Kiev did not invade Donbass that is. But then Kiev began the preparatory bombardment phase of its ethnic cleansing operation and the Kremlin was forced to act.
U.S. Intelligence Says Putin Made a Last-Minute Decision to Invade Ukraine
“But I suppose you with your prophetic powers of prediction could foretell in advance what would happen in the future. Because you are still claiming a special insight into the course of the war.”
Is that a fact? What special insight do you believe it is that I claim to possess?
“Contributors, including myself, have been concerned to expose the war-mongers in the West who pushed Ukraine into rejecting peace negotiations and still pressure its leaders into not making any compromises or concessions.”
Out of one side of your mouth, you claim Russia was provoked and out of the other you propose it was not. So which is it?
“The position held now by ourselves is to advocate for an immediate end of hostilities, even if it does mean Ukraine ceding its sovereignty over the territory now occupied by Russian troops.”
That is my position also.
“And yes we did take a stand in WW2 against fighting Nazis, as did the Communist Party, at least up to 1941 and Barbarossa. We, however, remained consistent in opposing the war”
So what was the Soviet Union to do after the Nazi invasion? Surrender? You must be joking?
“Of course, the CP leadership still about silencing any voices that dissent from “the party line.””
It’s called democratic centralism and it is highly justified. Look it up, you might learn something.
“”When such people are in power, of course, we see them imprisoning, killing and torturing dissenters, like any fascist (Red or White) clique.””
Sure, because communists are actually Nazis. At least that’s what liberals such as yourself seem to think.
“And forcing workers into killing one another.”
Oh, that’s right. Because Nazis are just “workers” don’t you know? Lol
