TrueScotsman
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“Which means in practice when the US judges that Russia has been sufficiently weakened.”
But Russia will only be stronger. It has gained huge swathes of territory and the resources and populations therein, its troops are battle hardened and NATO is being demilitarised. If the US believes it’s weakening Russia it’s in for a rude awakening.
“Your figures are suspect”
No, they are not.
“So the population of Ukraine is in the tens of millions and your Nazis number in the hundreds of thousands.”
Something like that. But then there are fascist sympathisers and there’s the indoctrination of the youth to consider also.
“The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments”
No, they’re not. Just as most German soldiers weren’t in SS units. What’s your point?
“To remove this minority from influence and out of power according to the De-Nazification plan means completely defeating the Ukrainians”
It does. Which is probably why the 300,000 reservists were called up.
“occupying all of their country and operating purges through the “filtration” system to identify those who fought for nationalistic reasons and those who fought for the Nazi ideology motive. A bit more complex than checking for tattoos.”
Yes, but I suspect most of them won’t survive that long. Once Russia’s offensives kick off Ukrainian troops will be slaughtered in appalling numbers. No need to filter out the dead.
“What an elaborate infrastructure will have to be put into place.”
It won’t be that hard. Russia has excellent intelligence on the Ukraine.
“You are confident of the ability of Russia to accomplish this. And you suggest we are not the realists!!”
Very confident. It’s not like it wasn’t done already in Germany following WW2. Or have you forgotten about that?
“And just how long can this process be implemented? Years? Decades? Forever?”
Didn’t take forever in Germany.
“Ukraine becomes a puppet state.”
Lol, it already is a puppet. Of Washington.
“Is this a feasible pathway to peace?”
Well, Kiev should’ve thought about all that before it started its war against its Russian speaking population.
“A settlement acceptable to the majority of non-Nazi Ukrainians? I think not.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself. You think not.
“Also, you have a serious misreading of the Sino-Vietnamese War that continued long after the Chinese invasion was foiled.”
Nope. It lasted just over a month.
“Yet again as has been said by others here, you confuse pretext with cause. It was a war between two imperialist countries aspiring for control of Indo-China.”
No, it wasn’t. I confuse nothing. You think not.
“You were previously asked how many Ukrainians were Fascists, Banderites and Nazis and failed to offer any answer.”
All-in with the imperialists, you are telling Pinocchios again. I said there were 100,000 fascist militiamen when the conflict with Russia began, about a third of Ukraine’s active military personnel. I also linked to an article explaining how fascists held key government posts including the highly influential education portfolio and infested the police and intelligence services. All left wing opposition parties in Ukraine are banned, all opposition media is banned. Stepan Bandera, a Nazi collaborator, is the hero and father of the nation. He is glorified across Ukraine. I have linked to an article explaining this too.
“Is it 10%, 20%, 30%, half, most, or all?”
As I answered last time, the numbers aren’t important, their influence is. And they are highly influential. With the imprimatur of the state and no hesitation to use violence and murder, what they want they get. They control the school curriculum and are therefore raising an entire generation of little fascists.
“It would suit pro-Russians to think that every Ukrainian was a Nazi.”
Putin has never said that. In fact, quite the opposite. Russia’s beef is with the illegitimate coup regime in Kiev, not the Ukrainian people which is why most of the country’s infrastructure was spared until very recently.
“It makes the justification of invasion and pretext for the war so much easier.”
The conflict is justified. Fighting Nazis is always the right thing to do. It is something Russians don’t shy away from given that they killed 8 out of 10 Nazis during WW2.
“However, can I ask how you de-nazify if you don’t even know who are the nazis?”
Lol. You can start with the ones covered in swastika tattoos.
“Whereas the reality of this war is that Ukrainians are fighting very much the same as Russians are”
Wrong. Kiev is fighting to subjugate the east. Russia is fighting to liberate it.
“having been duped by indoctrination to be nationalists and identify with the state-nation that they accidentally were born in.”
Russians don’t need to be duped into fighting Nazis. They do it because it’s the right thing to do.
“And what significance is “We are witnessing a realignment of the global geopolitical order.” to the working class.”
They’ll be free of US/European imperialist tyranny. That’s kind of a big deal.
“A mere change of master, a different slave-driver.”
BS. The new world being birthed will be one
of international law and win-win economic development not the might makes right “rules based order”.“And another question you failed to respond to was the comparison made previously with the Vietnamese defeating American imperialists to be subsequently invaded by the Chinese.”
All-in with the deep state, another Pinocchio. The Chinese invaded Vietnam to prevent Vietnamese colonization of Cambodia.
“A political power vacuum is always very quickly filled by another aspiring expansionist imperialist power.”
After delivering its message to Vietnam China withdrew from all Vietnamese territory. I believe the conflict was only 4 weeks long. So again, All-in with the billionaires, you’re mistaken.
“One important act we are engaged in is repudiating the myth of nationalism that contributes to the cause of wars. We aren’t reinforcing the ideology of patriotism, and national loyalty or creating chauvinist stereotypes to dehumanise fellow workers by ascribing to a whole people, extremist politics that only a small number actually hold.”
Right, so as Lizzie said, nothing.
“But to reply to your own personal interest, rather than advocate token one-day marches, or even a consumer boycott, we have said that the only effective way to counter the cost of living crisis is through determined industrial action. Class action and not individualism.”
And what are you doing to make that happen. Apart from nothing?
“Much too harsh, TS. The SPGB is engaging in the same abstract propaganda which they’ve been undertaking for 118 years. Please give credit where it’s due. 🙂”
Sorry, my bad! Credit where credit is due!
“Let us all just admit, no one on the forum is a military strategist.”
That is true but it’s easily enough understood when explained. Unless one is trying to be wilfully ignorant as appears the case on this thread.
“No one on the forum possesses inside intelligence on the progress of the war.”
And no one claims to so your point is moot.
“No one on this forum can influence the conduct of the war or determine its course.”
Oh, I get it now. It’s “point out the bleeding obvious day” today at Socialist Posers Guardian Brahs.
“However, on the forum, there is one cheerleader who has chosen who he wants to win the war.
All others here don’t give a damn about which side is victorious.”
Which means you don’t care if Nazis win. Well, thankfully, most sane people in the world don’t share your view. Only the propaganda addled western publics of whom you’re all members.
“Our view is that it is always the working class who pays the price of war and it is always the working class who loses in war.”
That is true. But when you defeat Nazis you usually keep on living. Not necessarily so if the Nazis win.
“We aren’t attempting to re-arrange the front-lines, to change the order of battle, to prepare for the next offensive.”
No, we are merely spectators but the events are of historic importance. We are witnessing a realignment of the global geopolitical order.
“This is not a war to end wars.”
The defeat of US/European hegemony, of which this will be a major contribution, may well be a step in that direction.
“Only winning the class war can do that. And that is that war we are solely committed to.”
Lol, you’re not committed to doing anything. You couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. What is SPGB doing right now to take advantage of the capitalist crisis we’re living through? I bet not one God damn thing.
“We don’t of course know what’s behind the Russian state’s announcement that it is to withdraw its troops from Kherson which it regards as part of its territory.”
Actually, we do know because Russian general Surovikin said why.
“Keeping Russian troops on the west bank with their back to the river created a risk that, in the event of Ukraine launching a major attack accompanied by blowing damns up river, the soldiers would be trapped and forced to fight without a reliable line of communication.”
“This is what the population of Kherson can expect when the Ukrainian state takes over and the Ukrainian secret police get to work”
Yes, the Nazi death squads would love to slaughter innocent civilians. Only, they were all evacuated. So the Nazis will have to satiate their blood lust some other way.
“Online trolling is the practice of behaving in a deceptive, destructive, or disruptive manner in a social setting on the Internet with no apparent instrumental purpose.”
But I have a purpose Bojo’s Brain. It’s to warn any socialist adjacent people visiting this site away from your little gaggle of reactionaries.
“Strangely, however, it doesn’t have a diagnostic tool to help us identify clowns, although generally the clowns do a pretty good job of making themselves fairly obvious to spot.”
Certainly true in your case.
“Therefore, the German army was winning decisively when they were retreating from the east front. Putin should hire him to become one of his military strategists or military adviser to remove all the Russian soldiers from Ukraine to win the war”
You know as much about military strategy as you do about socialism. Ie, nothing.
“the Russian military is retreating with a huge loss of life”
Lol. In both cases there was no loss of life. You must stop reading the Guardian.
“If we are reactionary, Marx and Engels are also reactionary because we hold the same view of Marx and Engels”
Rubbish. You use Marxism to argue against actually existing Marxist societies. You are reactionaries.
“If we are not serious peoples, what are you looking for in this forum ?”
I’ve already stated my purpose. To demonstrate to any newcomers that you are not socialists but reactionaries.
“This party has been a serious organization for more than 118 years”
No, it has never been serious. That’s why there are only a half dozen of you.
“you do not know its history, and the history of its member, therefore, you are just an amateur.”
I don’t need to know your history only your views now. And they are reactionary.
“You do not asume any serious position”
I have a serious position. Actually existing socialist governments and their allies deserve the support of socialists everywhere.
“you try to evade responsibility on any serious issues”
No, I don’t. I’ve answered all questions put to me relevant to this thread topic. You, on the other hand, have not. What’s your source for Russia not accepting foreign students’ university degrees?
“even more, this is the only democratic place that will accept all your diatribes”
You asked to have me banned so go jump in a lake.
“in other place you would have been kicked out, and the prior moderator would have blocked you, or he had blocked this thread”
It sounds like you want All-in with the CIA to block me. That’s on him. Until he does so I’ll keep embarrassing you clowns.
