TrueScotsman
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“it would be reasonable to estimate using the official Russian death figures that 15,000 Russian and allied soldiers will have died.”
I would agree with those mumbers. The Ukrainians on the other hand have lost at least 100,000 dead possibly much higher. Ukrainian losses are unsustainable, Russian losses are not. That is why Russia will win and decisively.
“LOL TS you’ve run out of arguments and now you are reduced to ad homs as your last line of defense.”
I don’t know what else to call a series of disorganised thougts.
“Boy, does it show. You would do well to seek employment as a clown in a circus.”
Don’t give up your day job, humor just ain’t your thing.
“You are so muddled you don’t even know what your own sources of evidence are saying. The BBC report you cited was dated July 1 so how could it possibly be true that 1,000 Russian troops were dying on average per month up until September”
There were two contradictory reports about the BBC article and I couldn’t be arsed discovering which was accurate.
“according to this self-same BBC report you cite or do you think the monthly kill rate is fixed?”
No, but averaged 1,000. Then, all of a sudden, and only in the last 3-4 months the death count goes up to 20,000 per month? What you smoking? Do share.
“Also the BBC report you cite only refers to Russian soldiers’ deaths that have been individually verified by BBC News Russian – namely 4020 up to 24 June. That does not preclude the possibility that many more might have been killed.”
But it’s awfully close to what the Russians said they lost. Put two and two together Sherlock.
“The UK government for example talks of 15,000 Russian soldiers dead up until 27”
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
“June and the Ukrainian government gives a figure of 34K”
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
“TS continues to deflect from the fact that the assault on Kiev failed. It was now merely a diversion according to him.”
Everyone, this is what brain damage looks like.
“TS buys into the Russian story that it was to buy time for the Eastern offensive and that it was not a military miscalculation.”
Lol. Robotomy thinks that when you want to take a city of 3 million you send 30,000. Genius.
“The Russians failed to establish full control over the airport with its elite airborne regiment from which capture they intended to reinforce its vanguard.”
Two things. 1: the Russians hoped for a quick surrender. 2: if you launch a feint and it’s not convincing, the enemy won’t fall for it.
“And the other supply line, the long convoy of trucks 40 miles in length on the main highway was easy prey to the Ukrainians but according to reports, mostly disorganization and bad planning.”
Lol, Guardian reports. The troops were there for the two reasons stated above.
“Was it to be the sacrificial lamb if TS is correct, a diversion to pin down Ukrainian forces?”
Yes.
“Or part of an intended siege army?”
No.
“Or a relief column for the Russians hanging on at the airport?”
No.
“What was its mission?”
As above.
“Russia call its dispersal, a re-deployment. Others called the retreat a rout.”
The troops were withdrawn as a gesture towards negotiation. It’s not a secret.
“It was the unsustainability of the attack on Kiev that caused Russia to withdraw the East.”
There was no attack.
“Certainly not as been suggested a peace gesture for negotiations”
And you know that how?
“The imperialist military incursion into Ukraine by Russian forces is now called a “feint” by our resident Putin bootlicker who continues adamantly to refuse to call a spade a spade. Of course NATO is also to blame and socialists are no less critical of NATO and Ukraine than we are of the Russian regime. Unlike TS with his pro-capitalist outlook, we refuse to take sides in a capitalist war and two wrongs don’t make a right.”
What is this, grade 6 stream of consciousness writing? Yawn.
“The other two reasons for Russia’s military imperialism cited by our apologist for Russian capitalism – denazification and demilitarisation – are BS excuses. The Ukrainian regime is no more – or if you prefer, no less – Nazi than the Russian regime.”
Not gonna argue this point with you for the thousandth time. Believe whatever you wanna believe. I couldn’t give a shit.
“They are both corrupt authoritarian right-wing capitalist oligarchies remarkably similar in their makeup.”
As above.
“As for demilitarisation, there was no chance as I understand it of Ukraine joining NATO according to its own internal rules”
Ukraine was defacto NATO already.
“This is a capitalist war being fought for the usual capitalist reasons – spheres of influence, resources and so on”
As above.
“LOL So even when the Russian regime says there is a weapons shortage”
It never made any such claim. Did you read the link to your link. It was talking about bandages FFS.
“TS refuses to accept this.”
Cos it’s BS like just about everything else published about Russia in the MSM.
“You see, TS far from being comfortably seated in his armchair is actually based in the Russian-held part of Ukraine now as we speak and is closely involved in carrying out an inventory inspection of weapons there. He has been personally assured by Russian soldiers he has quizzed there that all they lack is good-quality toilet paper”
Right, and I have zero knowledge about the moon because I’ve never been there either. It’s made of cheese isn’t it?
“No, you plonker – I am talking about the total number of deaths to date in this war, not the weekly kill rate (which would obviously change from week to week anyway).”
You said Russian “killed” you pillock, go back and look. 1,000 Russian troops were dying on average per month up until September according to the BBC. If we stick with that average monthly death rate then we can estimate about 8,000 to now.
“In addition, Shoigu’s statement put Russia’s own troop losses at 5,937 since the start of the war. The BBC Russian Service and the independent outlet Mediazona, however, used open sources to confirm the deaths of more than 6,000 Russian soldiers in the war as of September. On September 21, Mediazona reported that more than 6,600 Russian losses had been confirmed.”
“The link you cited is out of date and at most would have been up to the end of June. The latest figure is 100K casualties on the Russian side though as ALB points out this includes wounded soldiers too. In terms of actual fatalities on the Russian side, one figure that I have come across is 71200 reported on 1 Nov (so up to the end of October). However, this is a Ukrainian estimate and is likely to be on the high side just as the Russian figure is likely to be on the low side for obvious propaganda reasons. It’s like I said – the exact figure is almost certainly going to be somewhere in between.”
You cited 100,000 Russians “killed”. Complete BS. 72,000 more BS. It’s likely between 6-8,000.
“To repeat – the question is if Russia’s war aims were to protect Donbas how come Russian troops were to be found on the outskirts of Kyiv?”
The feint towards Kiev WAS protecting Donbass. It pinned Ukraine’s troops there preventing them from participating in hostilities. But, as I’ve already stated numerous times, protecting Donbass was only one of three war aims. The other two were/are De-Nazification and de-militarization/de-NATOization. All three, it was hoped, could have been achieved through a Ukrainian surrender and resulting peace negotiations. To bring Kiev to the table they would have to feel threatened. This was the reason for the multiple lightning thrusts into Ukraine including toward Kiev. The tactic almost worked but negotiations were scuttled personally by Bojo.
“How is this not a case of militaristic imperialism?”
Because Russia had done everything possible to avoid the conflict but NATOstan and the Kiev Nazis insisted they wanted it.
“Russia Finally Admits Weapons Shortage in Ukraine War”
Lol, some of the newly mobilized troops are short of toilet paper. Where it matters: tanks, aircraft, artillery shells, missiles and small arms and ammunition- no shortages.
“The Russian economy is shrinking
According to independent analysis by the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), 2022 will be a bad year for the Russian economy. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is expected to drop by at least 5.5% in the best scenario to almost 9% in the worst scenario.”Bunk. The Russian economy is doing just fine.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russian-economy-contract-29-2022-economy-minister-2022-09-06/
“The BBC report you refer to is dated 1 July so the figures in it relate to June at the latest. In case you were not aware it is now late November.”
Which means approximately 1,000 Russian dead per month up to July which isn’t far off from what the Russians were reporting. Math not your strong suit?
“The same source you use – the BBC – now reports that there have been 100,000 Russian soldiers killed”
Lol, so 94,000 Russians were killed in the last few months?! Dim, dimmer, dimmest, Robotomy.
“the actions of the Russian capitalist regime were justified because it was intent on “defending Donbas”, Well if so why did it not confine its military presence to Donbas rather than venture as far as the outskirts of Kiev. As per usual you squirmed out of answering that question”
I did no such thing. Russia’s war aims were made known at the very beginning of the conflict and have remained unchanged.
“I cannot predict the outcome of the war but at the moment it appears that both sides are being ground down and many of your “grounded hardened” Russian squaddies – poor sods – are surrendering in their thousands”
No, they are not. What is your source for such rubbish? Provide a link.
“and feeling distinctly disinclined to fight Putin’s war. I don’t blame them”
Erm, except not true.
“Gawd, TS- what’s it like living in a little make-believe world all on your own? American military spending alone exceeds that of China, Russia, India, France, Germany and the UK combined, FFS.”
That spending includes all sorts of things entirely unrelated to maintaining a military force capable of even giving Russia a stubbed toe from paying the upkeep on 800+ foreign bases, veterans affairs, nuclear weapons research and on and on. The US MIC is all about profit and therefore inefficient, their aircraft carrier groups sitting ducks for Russian hypersonic misiles. The US poses no threat to Russia except for its nukes and well, then it’s game over for everyone.
“Its military-industrial complex must be rubbing its hands in glee at the thought of all that extra weaponry required and will have no problem meeting the demand.”
Shows how little you know. Read a little Scott Ritter he’ll put those fairy-tales you believe in to bed.
“Russia’s military-industrial complex is by comparison tiny.”
No, it is huge and very efficient. Read the article MS just linked to.
“There is no way it can match the combined manufacturing capacity of the NATO countries.”
When in a hole one should stop digging. The more words you say the wronger you get.
“If anyone’s arsenals are being depleted it is Russia’s.”
Lol, I’ve been hearing for months that Russia’s running out of missiles. The largest barrage yet hit just yesterday. Russia is not running out of weapons. It has been preparing for this conflict since 2012.
“It’s little wonder it’s relying on North Korea and Iran for military support.”
Stories about Russia buying shells from DPRK are probably false though if they’re buying stockpiles of shells it’s hardly out of desperation. Apparently Russia is using Iranian drone technology but it’s not clear if this is under lisence, ie. the Russians have permission to build the drones themselves in Russian factories. But Russia has plenty of drones of its own some of which they may not wish to deploy to keep the tech out of NATOs hands.
“As for your talk of Nato’s armies not having fought anything but tribesmen in decades, it was Afghan tribesmen that routed the Russian army if you recall”
Lol, I’d like to see the Taliban take on Russia on Russia’s border. Apples and oranges.
“Depends on which propaganda you choose to believe in. Ukrainian sources believe Russian fatalities are approaching 100,000, The truth is probably somewhere in between”
No, the truth is not somewhere in between. Even the BBC admits Russian losses are low.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61987945
““Huge” is a relative term.”
5th largest in the world is huge by any standard.
“The Russian economy has not collapsed but there is no doubt that it is suffering as a result of sanctions and that things are going to get progressively worse the longer the war drags on.”
There is no evidence supporting your statements. The Russian economy is actually improving.
“As for China – well China has got Russia over a barrel (no pun intended) and has been able to purchase Russian oil and gas at a steep discount rate. Capitalist competition does not cease between capitalist countries just because they appear to be friendly toward each other”
Russia and China are in an alliance in all but name.
“You don’t. All you support is the struggle of one authoritarian capitalist regime against another authoritarian capitalist regime. You have no objection to either authoritarianism or capitalism as such”
To defeat Nazism requires a military which necessitates a good deal of authoritarianism. Without it Nazism wins. That’s the price one pays and the price is worth it. Likewise, civilization cannot exist without authoritarianism. If you want one then there’s no avoiding the other. Don’t like it, then go live in a cave in the Himalayas.
“You support capitalism because you thoroughly endorse its supporting ideology of nationalism”
I’m an internationalist but I recognise the right of a nation state to sovereignty as laid out in the UN system. Nothing to do with capitalism Robotomy.
“national sovereignty” is something to be valued!).”
It is. Without it the imperialists and hegemons will be either interfering with or outright invading you. Perhaps you enjoy being interfered with. Most people don’t.
“And you previously poured scorn on the concept of Marxian socialism”
No, only on your twisted, inchoate interpretation of it.
“As a gullible right-wing supporter of Russian imperialism”
Russia is not imperialist. It is fighting against NATO’s imperialism. And it is winning. And that is good.
“you have that in common with naive leftists with their gibberish about “national liberation struggles”.”
Lol, it’s pretty obvious now why your “party” only has half a dozen members.
“Imperialism is not limited to overt military conquest. It is an expression of capitalism’s expansionist dynamic and since capitalism is global so is every part of the world, imperialist – latently or manifestly.”
Russia is helping to create a new way of economic development through BRICS+ and partnering up with the Belt and Road inititiative as well as developing many other multilateral institutions free of western imperial dominance. Win-win outcomes are the model not imperialist exploitation.
“Imperialism is hardwired into the very nature of the modern capitalist nation-state. Russia is no less imperialist than the US for example even if it is not as successful as an imperialist power as the US”
Well those times are changing. Perhaps you don’t think change possible?”
“You don’t need to intend to capture a city of 3 million in order to “assault” it. Geddit?”
You framed Russia’s actions re Kiev as failed. You cannot fail in an attempt if no attempt is made. You get that right? I’m afraid I don’t speak brain damaged so perhaps I can’t explain it in terms you’ll understand.
“Seriously? So the Russian military should have no problem strolling back into Kherson tomorrow in that case since it would have no reason to expect any military resistance. You are such a clown, TS”
Robotomy, child, listen don’t speak. You’re only embarrassing yourself. Russia is fighting a war of annihilation against the Ukrainian military. Territory is not important, grinding the enemy down is. If it can achieve this aim from the left bank or the right bank of the Dnieper it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. And once the Russian reserves are mobilised and the ground hardened offensives will begin that will, as sure as night follows day, eventually take back Kherson.
“Do you seriously imagine Russia’s capacity to manufacture advanced modern weaponry is greater than that of the NATO countries combined? You are living in a dream world TS.”
NATO countries are voluntarily deindustrialising, their leaders have shot themselves in the lungs by refusing Russian hydrocarbons. NATO’s arsenals are already sorely depleted thanks to aid to Ukraine. Nato’s armies haven’t fought anything but tribesmen in decades. NATO is a paper tiger and the whole world can see that now.
“How many Russian soldiers do you think have been killed or wounded in this war, TS?”
Two months ago it was up to almost 6,000. Ukraine at least ten times that though probably significantly more.
“How much Russian equipment has been destroyed or simply captured by the Ukrainian forces?”
This is a war against a well equipped and highly trained NATO proxy army so there have been losses. But nothing that can’t be replaced. NATO, on the other hand, is being forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel to keep Ukraine equipped. Overwhelming advantage, Russia.
“Do you seriously imagine the Russian economy is not being seriously impacted by this war? What do you imagine the “real world” is outside of your little bubble, eh?”
Russia’s economy is huge and China has it’s back. It’s struggle is existential so it will make sacrifices. But the rouble is stable, inflation is falling and supermarket shelves are well stocked.
“Drivel as usual. The comrades in the Azov battalion in Ukraine no doubt exhibit “solidarity” toward each other and by your pisspoor line of reasoning must therefore be considered as putting into effect a major tenet of “socialism”. Why don’t you trot off and join the Azov comrades in that case? You are the consummate muddlehead”
Doth protesting too much me thinks.
“But you have no problem supporting a thoroughly obnoxious authoritarian capitalist regime”
The running dog has reverted to chasing it’s flea-bitten tail again. You’re talking in circles Robotomy. I support the struggle against Nazism and western hegemony as should you.
“Russia’s defence spending is estimated as $66 billion per annum.”
The number is ridiculously misleading. You probably also believe the Russian economy is the size of Spain’s or Australia’s. It’s not. It’s far bigger. By PPP Russia’s economy is 5th largest in the world and its military spending far higher than a paltry $66 billion.
“Russia’s effective military expenditure actually ranged between $150 billion and $180 billion annually over the last five years.”
“Many of the countries in Nato have no significant history of what you would describe as imperialism (for example Poland”
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
“”LOL You have unequivocally taken the side of the Russian capitalist regime in this dispute.”
Yeah, I have chosen a side I wish to win, the side fighting the Nazis directly and Natostani imperialism indirectly, as all socialists should. Nowhere have I endorsed capitalism.
“That speaks for itself.”
Erm, no it doesn’t.
“Socialists don’t take sides in capitalist disputes.”
This dispute isn’t over capitalism it’s over security, sovereignty and the right to resist NATOstani imperialism.
“And you have made abundantly clear your disdain for Marxian socialism”
Only the demented pretzel you’ve selectively quoted into existence in your fevered imaginings. A version of Marxism shared by no one else on Earth but your sparsely attended mutual masturbation society.
“If the Putin capitalist regime wanted to “protect Donbas” why did it not simply station its troops in Donbas and go no further than the Donbas?”
Because those weren’t Russia’s sole war aims. The denazification and demilitarization/
deNATOization of Ukraine were also aims.“All you are doing is desperately thrashing around trying to concoct some contrived reason for justifying Russian imperialism.”
Russia is not imperialist. It is fighting imperialism and most of the world supports its fight.
“Oh? You could have fooled me.”
Well, that’s hardly difficult Robotomy, you get all your news from the Guardian after all.
“Perhaps you haven’t been following the news. Perhaps like sleeping beauty, you have fallen into a deep sleep for most of the year https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-kyiv-fights-back-against-russian-assault/g-60930036”
LOL, you think Russia tried to take a city of 3 million with 30 thousand troops? What’s a word to describe someone whose stupider than a person lobotomosed?
“oh and by the way what are the missiles raining down on Kiev and other Ukrainian cities recently if not an “assault”?”
There was no attempt by ground forces to take the city. Do I need to say it more slioooooowly so you can understand, child?
“NATO has been MASSIVELY reinforced and bolstered thanks to Russia’s imperialist actions in Ukraine”
Right, and all those tens of bilions of dollars of weapons NATO countries have sent to Ukraine, what happened to them? Oh that’s right, Russia destroyed them all.
“and its membership is set to expand too.”
Lol, now that Finland has joined Putin must be quaking in his boots!
“Defence spending in NATO countries is on the up as well.”
More shit for Russia to destroy. Whose gonna tire of that equation first?
“If any country is being shredded militarily and economically apart from Ukraine it is Russia itself”
A Robotomised Guardian Brah would think that. Meanwhile, in the real world…
“As for your point about government being authoritarian – yes that’s quite true. Or as Marx put it the state is inseparable from a condition of slavery and its very existence implies the existence of a ruling class. You might happily endorse the idea of a ruling class but socialists dont”
Erm, yeah, they do until it withers away. You forget that bit?
“Again. LOL. You haven’t got a clue about socialism, have you?”
Evidently more than you. I know one of its adherents’ major tenets is solidarity. You have none with socialists anywhere in the world. It’s why your “party” is, and will always remain, irrelevant.
“So you are in no position to comment.”
And yet here I am, commenting. Yet one more thing you’re wrong about.
“But then right-wing fascists like yourself”
Lol, I was merely right wing a few posts ago, now I’m also fascist? These words, I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.
“endorsing an authoritarian capitalist regime such as exists in Russia”
I endorse the battle against Nazism and for sovereignty, security and multipolarity. By opposing Russia’s fight you oppose these things.
“Tell me TS do you exude the same feeling of warm sympathy and kindred spirit for other authoritarian figures such as Mr Trump”
Trump supported the Nazis in Ukraine. He sent them hundreds of millions of dollars in arms. He did nothing to dismantle the US empire. He oversaw the largest transfer of wealth from poor to rich in history with his tax cuts, etc. The only two things he did that I approved of was not starting any new wars and attempting dialogue with DPRK.
“you are such a fan of authoritarianism? I’m just curious….”
I’m not a fan of authoritarianism but recognise its necessity in maintaining civilization. Name a single society on earth that won’t get authoritarian with you if you go on a mindless killing spree. Just one. I have until the end of time.
“Well from the capitalist perspective that TS endorses”
Oh, that’s interesting. As I’ve no recollection of ever having done so, do quote my endorsement of capitalism. I have all year.
“if that was the case why did the Russian military not simply enter Donbas to “protect” it and go no further?”
Because the only way to protect Donbas is to defeat Ukraine militarily.
“Why attempt a doomed assault on Kyiv?”
There was no assault on Kiev.
“The authoritarian capitalist regime of Putin blundered badly in its imperialist designs on Ukraine.”
All government is by definition authoritarian. Civilization cannot exist without a measure of authoritarianism. Only those with no understanding of how the world actually operates believe otherwise. That aside, Russia is shredding Ukraine’s military and demilitarising NATO. Explain to me how that is a blunder?
“Not that we socialists”
You’re not socialists. You’re posers.
“a rabid anti-socialist right winger like TS evidently does”
Lol, I’ve been called many things in my life but never that. Good one, Robotomy.
“There are several news reports reporting a weakening of support from China.”
No doubt you’ll dismiss them as Guradian lies”Bojo’s Brain Fart you’re starting to learn. You know the only evidence you have is shite and yet, like a blow(hard)fly, you credulously cling to said shite anyways.
“The information I have provided for you, regarding NPD (free of charge, I might add!) is based not on “pseudo science””
Bojo’s Brain Fart is still playing dress ups as a Tween Vogue pseudo-scientist. How adorable. Now, run along and play child, the adults are talking.
