TrueScotsman
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“The SPGB position is summed up by the old Chartist saying
“Peacefully if possible, forcibly if necessary”
There is a crucial difference between being anti-war and pro-class war”
So do you support the Palestinians’ right to use violent resistance against their Zionazi oppressors?
“The SPGB position isn’t a pacifist one. If a recalcitrant minority was to use force to block the majority from obtaining Socialism, then it would be justified to use force against them. That’s why there is a section in the DoP about the necessity of socialists gaining control of the armed forces.”
That’s news to me. I have no difficulty accepting such a position. All-in, is this true?
“Ultimately, you cannot separate the means and the ends. If you employ oppressive methods to achieve your goal you will ensure that the goal that you achieve will be oppressive”
Really? So violence is never justified? How are the Palestinians supposed to free themselves then in the face of Zionist white supremacist genocide?
“They are shelling the city of Donetsk and other places in the Donbass and hitting civilian targets like schools and hospitals and killing civilians including children. Just like the Russians have been doing to Ukrainian cities.”
No, not “just like the Russians have been doing”. The Russians are not deliberately targeting schools and hospitals in acts of terror as the Ukrainians are doing. When the Russians target such buildings it is because Ukrainian soldiers have taken up firing positions there as even regime change front group Amnesty International has admitted.
“Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion”
Like it or not, such buildings become legitimate targets if occupied by military forces.
“TS, no, let’s try this again:
Try this link, and then search within the page for “20,000””Ok, I get it now. So, 20,000 reservists volunteered before being drafted. The 70,000 volunteets are raw recruits. Easily confused.
“Also, there is a version on Moon of Alabama”
No mention of 20,000 there either. The number is wrong. I’ve provided evidence of the fact. Let’s move on.
“As it is New York Times, you won’t accept anything it says, TS”
Correct. Won’t even waste my time reading it.
“My quote was from the Russian Minister of Defence, or is he a Guardianista bro?
Neither of your links work. The Russian Minister of Defence would not have made such an error. Your source either has a typo, a mistranslation or is outright lying. It’s impossible to know which.
“Your two “experts” are Russian journalists, not medical experts who most likely did what you and i did…used Google”
Lol. My source was Professor Igor Makarov, Director of the Russian Center for Forensic Examinations of the Russian Ministry of Health. Not a journalist.
“OHCHR documented the killings of 73 civilians (54 men, 16 women, 2 boys and 1 girl) in Bucha between 4 and 30 March 2022 and is in the process of corroborating 105 additional alleged killings of civilians”
Odd how the number continues to spiral. Such busy Nazis.
“Russian misinformation tried to debunk a video by Ukraine of bodies on the roadside by saying a hand was seen moving and one of the corpses stood.”
Still no link.
“Also confirmed is the accuracy and dates of Maxar’s satellite pictures that your link seeks to deny.”
By whom? Link?
“This from a person who rejects the proof given by both Soviet and Russian leaders”
No “proof” has ever been given.
“This from a person who claims that the USSR 1939 invasion of Poland was lawful.”
The USSR did not invade Poland.
“This from a person who believes the Russo-Ukraine war is not a war but a Special Military Operation.”
“War” is a legal category. Under Russian law it is not considered a war.
“Note that ratio, only 20,000 volunteers.”
Don’t know where that number comes from. Out of a hat? The actual number of recent volunteers for the Russian military exceeds 70,000.
Russian recruitment centers receive more than 70,000 volunteers
“Here are TS and myself, non-medical qualified, endeavoring to conduct a rudimentary autopsy from pictures which are for us very fortunately stench-free.”
Which is why I quoted from an epert who also examined the photographs. Moreover, one does not need to be an expert to recognise when a person’s face has been chewed off. There were no chewed off faces indicating no animal predation despite the bodies lying out in the open for weeks and previous bodies having been eaten. All-in has no explanation for this miracle so he ignores it.
“In the UK to become a pathologist a degree in medicine (five years), a foundation course (two years) and a specialist training programme (five or six years)”
Which is why I quoted from tan expert.
“Those who do have the appropriate knowledge will in due course release their findings for eventual court proceedings.”
No. The “investigation” was not impartial.
“TS and I are simply guessing”
No, I deferred to an expert and my own knowledge of what a body missing a face tends to look like.
“What we do know is that the Russian explanation that the corpses were fake has been proven false. So other scenarios are required.”
No claim to that effect has ever been made by anyone til now by you. Link to a source for your claim, please.
“TS can continue to deflect with questions about animals not eating the bodies.”
It’s not a deflection, it’s a key flaw in the narrative. Eyewitnesses testified to dogs feeding on the bodies of other corpses. A situation so distressing that townsfolk approached Russian soldiers and asked for permission to bury the bodies. A request which was granted. Later a massacre of “collaborators” took place. The Nazis and their boosters in the western press expect us to believe that these other bodies possessed magical powers and were immune to animal predation. The cognitive dissonance is strong with All-in.
“Or that the preservation of the corpse show a recent time of death. He is privy to the autopsy reports obviously that nobody else has and his photographs are much better than any that we have seen published.”
The expert I quoted categorically states that the victims were freshly deceased.
“How many maggots were there under the clothes corpse were they? I have no idea either.”
No maggots visible in any photos. Yet more evidence of recent death.
“His argument that Azov conducted all those public killings of so-called collaborators in the hundreds with many burned to cover it up in a matter of a day or two”
Sounds like you’re confusing events. There were mass graves of people killed during the Russian occupation of the area mostly by Ukrainian shelling. The number of “collaborators” murdered was relatively few in number. If you can’t even get these basic facts straight All-in why do you deign to wax lyrical concerning the incident? Lol
“Azov having arrived according to reliable reports on the 1/2 April, risking victims’ family and friends witnessing it is far-fetched”
LOL, all in thinks Nazis are concerned by disapproving stares.
“when there are numerous witnesses to Russian shootings”
Why am I not surprised that you take anything written in MSM at face value?
“as TS makes much of the Bucha mayor video, he and media was already present. I have already demonstrated that the white armband did not signify collaborator.”
It signified “collaborator” to the Nazis. “Friendly” to the Russians.
“The prevalence of the evidence including satellite imagery and interviews indicates that the Russians were responsible for the killings.”
No, it points to Ukrainian death squads.
“Why should TS be so determined to defend Russia while I on the other hand can fully condemn the Ukrainian killing of Russian POWs as war crimes?”
I’m not defending anybody. I’m defending the truth.
“TS argued that there was nothing to give the time of death as being during the Russian occupation such as decomposition. But the videos did show the signs that the corpses were not recent and could not have been committed by newly arrived Ukrainians.”
If the bodies had been outside for over two weeks they’d have been black and bloated.
“Putrefactive changes in the corpse start developing in one or two days when the anterior abdominal wall develops dirty-greenish staining (cadaveric greenery). It starts developing from the right iliac region due to the proximity of the gallbladder and liver to the body surface (due to the influence of their enzymes). On the third and fourth day after death, dirty green stripes — a putrefactive venous pattern — appear on the skin along the course of blood vessels. By the end of the first week, cadaveric emphysema develops: the accumulation of putrefactive gases in the tissues causes their volume to increase, which causes the dead body to increase in size.
The exposed parts of the bodies on the street of Bucha, for example, their hands, suggest that those people died only one or two days ago. They show areas of the so-called drying of the skin, which some mistook for traces of exposure to moisture.
The so-called washerwoman’s skin, indicating exposure to water, looks completely different. The drying of the skin, depending on temperature and humidity, usually develops at least one day later, but there are no putrefactive changes in the hands.”
You continue to avoid answering my questions about animal predation. The video shows zero evidence of such activity despite the fact witnesses reported dogs had been feasting on bodies while Russian troops were present. Please explain.
“Heavy clothing will slow decomposition more than light clothing. Cold weather slows the rate (i already quoted a reference to it being so cold that a Russian was unconcerned by bodies out in the open)”
The weather was not particularly cold.
“Temperatures in Bucha have been above zero since March 12. On March 21-26, daytime temperatures were rising to 10 degrees above zero Centigrade. The weather was sunny and warm.”
https://english.pravda.ru/world/151028-maxar_bucha/
This weather record confirms the above information.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/ua/bucha/324354/march-weather/324354
“From the movie Airplane:
Ted Striker (Robert Hays) tells Dr Rumack (Leslie Nielsen), “Surely you can’t be serious,” and Rumack replies, “I am serious — and don’t call me Shirley.”
Never saw the movie. I hear it’s good though. The joke might land better with an American audience, you know, the accent and all.
“True Imperialist, you still watching those old war movies with Nazi baddies vs Soviet heroes? Tiresome. Change the record. We’ve had page after page here of your repetitiveness. You have nothing to tell us, yet you keep on doing so.”
Lol. Teeny Thomas, you don’t seriously believe I’m here to educate you? No, there’s no educating the willfully ignorant. My pet project is disabusing any visitors to this site that you’re anything but a bunch of Socialist Poser Guardian Bros.
“We had to beg the Russians to let us bury them. They told us it was still cold, so it didn’t matter, they could lie there. But the dogs were starting to eat them. In the end we convinced them it was a sanitary issue and they let us dig the grave at the church of Andrew the Apostle since it was near both their military position and the morgue and hospital.”
Interesting quote. The witness says they begged the Russians to allow bodies to be buried because the dogs were eating them. (No mention of these people being executed by the way). I guess traffic and Russians weren’t scaring any of the wildlife away. The bodies were eventually buried so we’re not talking about those discovered on the streets after the Russians withdrew are we?
So, what of the bodies of the executed? They were supposedly left out for weeks. That means the dogs would have started eating them as their other snacks had been buried. Yet there was no animal predation in any of the photographs was there? You say there may have been photographic evidence of animal predation. There may also have been photographic evidence of Starlight the rainbow unicorn but let’s just stick to the evidence, shall we? So, explain why none of the photos show animal predation. I’ll tell you why. Because the victims had only just been executed by Ukrainian National Guard death squads.
