SocialistPunk
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Young Master Smeet wrote:Lbird,It's a serious question: are there, or are there not, an ifninite number of prime numbers?
Seeing as mathematics is a human invention and there is disagreement within the mathematic and philosophical community as to the exact definition of mathematics, it's probably a little pointless to offer it up during a discussion about the objectivity or subjectivity of science.I think this discussion has gone down plenty of blind alleys already.But hey, what's another dozen or so?
ALB wrote:Judaism, which doesn't believe in an afterlife, teaches that your descendants will suffer for 3 or 4 generations,I always thought Judaism had some kind of afterlife in mind, though there has been some disagreement over the history of Judaism. The general acceptance today seems to be of a resurrected afterlife.
Quote:The resurrection of the dead will occur in the messianic age, a time referred to in Hebrew as the Olam Ha-Ba, the World to Come, but that term is also used to refer to the spiritual afterlife. When the messiah comes to initiate the perfect world of peace and prosperity, the righteous dead will be brought back to life and given the opportunity to experience the perfected world that their righteousness helped to create. The wicked dead will not be resurrected.This from the Jewish Virtual Library.
Quote:OLAM HA-BA (Heb. עוֹלָם הַבָּא). The term olam ha-ba (literally, "the coming world") in contrast to olam ha-zeh (liter-ally "this world") refers to the hereafter, which begins with the termination of man's earthly life. This meaning of the expression is clearly implied in the statement of R. Jacob, quoted in Avot (4:17): "One moment of repentance and good deeds in this world is better than the entire life of the world to come." The earliest source in which the phrase occurs is Enoch 71:15, which is dated by R.H. Charles (Charles, Apocrypha, 2 (1913), 164) between 105 and 64 B.C.E. A synonym frequently used in place of "the world to come" is atid lavo ("What is to come" or "the future") as in Tosefta Arakhin 2:7. Often also "the days of the Messiah" are contrasted with the life of this world. An example is the comment by the colleagues of Ben Zoma (1:5) on the phrase "all the days of thy life" (Deut. 16:3) that it includes in addition to this world the era of the Messiahhttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_15058.html
Not sure this belongs on this thread but couldn't think of anywhere else and didn't think it needed a thread of its own and seeing as taxation is a theme here…..A bit of info seeking about taxation. Does anybody have any info, proof etc that the burden of taxation falls on the capitalist class? I've been searching on the net for any figures etc and can't seem to find anything through the minefield of info.
Unfortunately there are still many nutjobs, especially in the US, who cling to the idea of a global Illuminati type Zionist conspiracy.
Alan, the link you posted is a subscription site. Any chance of giving a quick rundown of the story?This link was provided by Hallblithe on another thread. Could explain the situation.http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jul/09/israel-war-gaza-palestine-natural-gas-energy-crisis
That event is something I would seriously consider attending if it weren't for my physical issues these days. It would be great if a party member or two could get in there with some leaflets addressing a few of the issues from a socialist standpoint.On a Tory party political note, Tory cabinet member Warsi, has resigned from the cabinet in protest about the governments refusal to condemn Israel's violent actions in Gaza.Now the question I would ask, did she not know the Tory policy on Israel before she got into the cabinet, for crying out loud.? What planet has she been living on all these years? The Tories under Thatcher and Major where supporting Israel, so was the Blair government. Will she now leave the Tory party? I doubt if she has that much of a conscience.
Hi rodshawSwitching that back around you could then say if the human brain is not developed enough to appreciate God's role then who's fault is that?I like the God moves in mysterious ways theme as it suggests that us non beleivers are in effect, Doubters by Design.
There is also another point in raising this YMS. To generate discussion about the process and if it can be used to any advantage. Yet there is little interest from members, as I suspect many do not like the direction such a thread is ultimately heading towards. Party introspection.If as you say "the trick is to get the pro-social behaviours to swing in our direction", I think it a little self defeating for the SPGB to put up anti -pro-social messages, almost parading its exclusivity like a badge. I'm not trying to be unduly harsh on the party and have a go for the sake of it, I'm just pointing out the contradiction you are setting up here.I think most of the readers realised it isn't a model for party growth, if it were the party would probably have a lot more members as friends and family members sought to join. For example, just suppose all the existing members did not include couples as I'm sure there are a few, but for this social model we assume otherwise. Then we might expect the membership to be double what it is as each spouse or partner joined. Then if only one friend of each member were to join the membership would increase further and so on. So it is fairly obvious that the SPGB at present is failing to have any noticeable impact on community groups.It then comes back to "the trick" of finding ways to encourage the pro-social behaviours in communities to gravitate towards the SPGB and WSM.
Hi JS,Thanks for the link, looks to be an interesting site for all kinds of subjects.Found an interesting recent one, link below, that has a rather "no holds barred" title. I always feel uncomfortable when Zionism is mentioned, despite it being a Jewish Nationalist movement it always conjures up racial conspiracy theories. But the article does use interesting quotes supporting it's take on things, though that doesn't necessarily mean it is correct.http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-israeli-dream-the-criminal-roadmap-towards-greater-israel/5391839
YMS, I was hoping you could inform us of where people with a socialist political view ,yet with a spiritual belief, fit into the model provided. And once more I am not suggesting the party let those people "in".Also I am not sure the WSM has any strong links "at the moment" that would fit in with the model in question.I had thought this topic could have gone somewhere with respect to the possibilties of who and what and how the strong links fit into the expansion of influence etc, hence my questions were deliberately aimed at provoking discussion.Perhaps like most management jargonit iit sn't meant to be discussed and any questions are met with horror at the idea people are "not on message". Not a dig at you YMS just the management mumbo jumbo like "blue sky thinking", "pre-plan", "touch base" "going forward" etc. It gets us nowhere we didn't already know we weren't .
Does anyone have any decent links to where I can get up to speed with the recent history of the Palestinian conflict, that will help me get to grips with what is going on and why?Might sound like something a socialist should know, but there is so much biased info out there it's hard to wade through it.
Hi VinI wasn't aware of any recent JFK admissions, be interested to have a butchers. Do you have a link?
I don't think it a case of not caring. I do believe Vin cares that Jean Charles de Menezes was murdered by a bunch of trigger happy scumbags who lied about the events that took place to cover their backs.It's just we are not shocked by the things that capitalist governments get up to under the guise of protecting our freedom.Look how the government in the eighties dealt with the miners and the "peace convoy" travellers. Open brutality, backed by media bias and silence.Also we see the futility of seeking redress within the the framework of the rigged game of capitalism. Only when we bring about real socialism will we the workers of the world have any redress.
Well I understand that YMS, but the relationship building will inevitably bring people into a broad socialist fold and some if not many of those people will have a spiritual belief. As socialism is democratic, those people will have a say in the growing movement. I don't want to get into the religious thing on this thread. It's just if this model were to act out we would find people, with what we see as problematic views, becoming part of the democratic movement towards socialism.The not wanting your vote policy, does indeed set us apart from the crowd, as it could possibly alienate us from that which we are seeking to propagate. A growing network of relationships based around socialist aims and principles etc.I think we'll have to disagree about the "numbers game" issue as I see that merely as a tool for encouraging links and support. The more votes socialism gets at elections the more people notice and take seriously. So it is only logical to openly accept those votes, rather than discourage them. So it isn't simply "nose counting" and if you see it that way you have missed the point and potential entirely.The WSM already has a fairly strict membership policy, so if a person who voted for the party sought to join but does not fully understand, then they wouldn't get in. However they could then be kept on a "nearly there" contact list and provided with info' and updated regularly etc. But saying don't vote for us unless you fully understand is negative and not in keeping with the inclusive positive message of socialism.
