[SocialistPunk]

In reference to the title of the thread.What does it matter whether Marx was a materialist or an idealist-materialist? I don't see how it would bring us any closer to a majority of the worlds workers realising the potential they hold to transform society into one fit for human habitation?

[SocialistPunk]

Vin wrote:

Still waiting for your form A SP  

You never know Vin, I might decide to make a new years resolution.

[SocialistPunk]

Vin,Gnome and myself may lock horns from time to time, but I'm in total agreement regarding democracy and socialism. You can't have socialism without democracy and if that group of one time SPGB members were ignoring conference decisions, then they aint socialists in any practical sense.It's one thing to be a theoretical Marxist, even then I bet Marx would be turning in his grave at the idea of people who dismiss socialist democracy in favour of their ego, it's entirely another thing when it comes to being a socialist.

[SocialistPunk]

rodmanlewis wrote:

Yes, if they are helping the socialist movement. But it would be better if they joined. It would give them and us more confidence to continue the work.

Straying into the realm of the claim that has been knocked about here the now and then, that only members of the SPGB/WSM are socialists.

[SocialistPunk]

It does help. Thanks Mod1.

[SocialistPunk]

Vin wrote:

SocialistPunk wrote:

Three flaggings in less than twenty four hours Vin. Perhaps we're seeing a misuse of the flagging function?

We certainly are. Wonder which idiot flagged your post? Surely a reason for flagging should be given.

I noticed Vin. I also noticed Gnome has been flagged on the "Brighton Discussion Group" thread.I was hoping the moderator might be able to let us know whether or not he can see who is using the flag function?I thought the flag function was meant for problem posts. The impression I'm often left with is of a petulant child blabbing to teacher over something trivial or as a trolling aid.

[SocialistPunk]

Three flaggings in less than twenty four hours Vin. Perhaps we're seeing a misuse of the flagging function?

[SocialistPunk]

gnome wrote:

SocialistPunk wrote:

rodshaw wrote:

Excellent. But I think the Tory stuff is a bit wacky, however tongue in cheek, not really consistent with the party approach.

With more media experience he will be a formidable asset to the SPGB.

Hmm, he already is a formidable asset which is more than can be said about some…

Ha ha ha! God you are funny Gnome, you are a comedic asset to the SPGB.I guess I'll have to explain in simple language for you once again.In my oppinion Howard made an error, publicly joking about socialists voting Tory. It could come back to haunt him and the SPGB. Something that with more media experience I've no doubt he will be able to avoid. Unless of course you're saying socialists have nothing to learn or benefit from with increased experience of public presentation?Perhaps passing the speakers test automaticaly infuses an SPGB member with perfect public presentation, all possibility of error is extinguished? Imagine the scenario, Howard's invited back on BBC, The Daily Politics show for a brief slot. Andrew Neil takes the opportunity for a dig, asking about socialists voting Tory. The brief slot would then be dominated by a misjudged throwaway comment. How would that come across do you think?The more experience a person gets at doing things the more they learn. The more likely it is they learn to avoid certain approaches the more they hone their technique etc. Get it? Is that simple enough for you to grasp?That's all I was saying with that sentence you quote out of context.On top of misquoting me, you had to make a snide comment. I kinda expected you would do your usual routine.

[SocialistPunk]

rodshaw wrote:

Excellent. But I think the Tory stuff is a bit wacky, however tongue in cheek, not really consistent with the party approach.

I agree Rodshaw, it is an odd thing to publicly say in jest. There are millions of people living in abject poverty, governed by repressive regimes and yet I don't see the buds of a socialist revolution, or even evolution, opening anywhere. (I keep coming across an evolutionary socialist theme from some SPGB members)Such jokes have a tendency to backfire. I can see the next catchy misrepresentations, "Well-to-do socialists vote Tory" and so on.I don't like criticising Howard, I liked his approach on BBC, The Daily Politics show. He was relaxed, able to crack a smile and a laugh, he has a good manner. He didn't come across as an oddball. With more media experience he will be a formidable asset to the SPGB.

[SocialistPunk]

It would be a good idea to invite such controversial personalities to give talks or engage in debate. It could be a positive move to demonstrate how the SPGB does things. I suggest HO is not used in such situations and a neutral venue found, just in case protestors decide to kick off.

[SocialistPunk]

jondwhite wrote:

Blowing to pieces the base of ISIS is ok for Labour MPs but the crowd with a megaphone outside warmongerer Stella Creasys office is intimidating.

I doubt if anyone here would care if Daesh were wiped off the face of this earth. I expect we would all welcome it. But as we know, and the protestors know, innocent civilians will inevitably get caught up in the process.You are correct JD, the MPs who support layering chaos on top of chaos seem unable to see the hypocrisy in thinking they are victims of unfair abuse while supporting inevitable "collateral damage".The argument to support this view, is that Daesh are already killing thousands and must be stopped. And the mindset behind thinking that violence and chaos, heaped on top of violence and chaos is the solution, can be summed up with the famous quote from the Vietnam war.

Quote:

"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it."

[SocialistPunk]

As someone who has a serious genetic illness, Cystic Fibrosis, this is an issue that is important to me. I've no doubt that poverty is a factor in the UK regarding winter deaths. However my personal experience year after year tells me another factor is at work. Sheer ignorance and selfishness.Most healthy people don't consider the implications for those of us who are more susceptible to the ravages of a cold or flu virus. Every year we are persuaded of the miracle properties of various cold and flu remedies designed to mask symptoms and help people get to work and get on with their life etc. The fact they will be spreading the virus everywhere they go is of no concern. 

Quote:

Experts say the strain of flu circulating last year had a greater impact on older people, resulting in a number of care home outbreaks and admissions to intensive care.

Quote:

Caroline Abrahams, at Age UK, said: "Behind the figures are many individual tragedies of older people dying needlessly before their time."

For flu outbreaks to occur in care homes, the virus has to be brought in, usually by selfish fuckheads going to work ill or visiting.

[SocialistPunk]

But YMS, surely it's a reasonable response to "evildoers" such as Daesh?

[SocialistPunk]

Gnome wrote:

What we won't see implemented, however, is a desperate act to import any Tom, Dick or Harriet off the street to fill moderator vacancies anymore than in the case of the vacant party officer posts we currently have. Want to participate in the democratic running of the party?  Then join it.  Period.

Nobody ever said anything about allowing any "Tom, Dick or Harriet off the street.." as a non-party moderator.I'm aghast at the incoherent opposition to the idea of non-party moderators being part of a mod' team.

Gnome wrote:

Ideally, moderators should be selected from party members appointed to the Internet Committee…

"Ideally", I'd like to hear an actual credible reason other than the one that is becoming quite clear now. As Vin pointed out with his League of Gentlemen skit. "This is local party for local people, What's all this shouting, we will have no trouble HERE." Hilarious.Anyone ever given any ounce of thought into the possibility that there could be any number of reasons why a sympathiser may not be able to join? Perhaps it's time the SPGB enshrined in it's rule book that support of any kind from sympathisers be rejected?

[SocialistPunk]

Surely more than one moderator would be preferable?

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