rodshaw
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alanjjohnstone wrote:Lennon and leaders in his own wordshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoC83orA4ysLennon on revolution in his own words and endorsing peacefully if possible , violently if necessary ideahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRq1mp4VArA
As far as socialists are concerned, these clips are a garbled mishmash of all sorts, e.g. 'If you want to change the world, do it subtly by…bed-ins'. Yeah, right. I think Russell Brand has more idea.Holding 'Imagine' up as a socialistic song is fair enough as far as it goes (it doesn't mention anything about taking political action to get rid of the ruling class, for example, and nor does 'Working Class Hero') but we should distance ourselves from 'Lennonism'.
Maybe his comments are just a prelude to laying off some vatican employees in the interests of austerity.
BTSomerset wrote:However, directly investing in a fund does risk being associated with unsavoury activity, which would tarnish our reputation.Our reputation with whom? The pope?
Ed wrote:How does owning the means of production and exploiting the surplus value of workers make us part of the owning class?I apologize, I don't know how to answer this in a way that will not come across as completely patronizing.And how can you possibly think that by investing in stocks and shares some money which would otherwise sit in a bank account (which the bank invests in stocks and shares anyway), the party suddenly owns the means of production and exploits the working class? It beggars belief. We'll still only own the current value of the money we invested.
How does investing the money to try and get a bit of return on it make us any more part of the owning class than having the money in the first place, sitting in a bank account?And remember, folks, the value of your investment can go down as well as up.
If this post intended to make a point about the ‘ethicality’ or otherwise of investments to be made by the party, in my view it should have said so and it should be in the party business section, not the general discussion section.
So some people will be turned off these charities and look for other ways of wasting their money.'But still', others will say, 'at least some of the money gets to the people who need it'.Quite possibly – and look what good it's done. The relatively poor giving money to the very poor, and the rich onto another good scam.
mcolome1 wrote:rodshaw wrote:He's obviously a Catholic Marxist. What's not to like?A Catholic-Marxist is an incompatible combination, it is like mixing oil and vinegar, religion and socialism are incompatibles, because some reformist leftist groups are supporting him, it does not mean that the catholic church is taking another road, in any way, the left will support anybody, but he does not support the so called liberation theology. …
Er, yes, irony doesn't carry well over the internet.
What about 'full democracy'?We definitely don't want to be talking about the proletariat and the bourgeoisie. People will really think we're stuck in the past. In any case people relate 'bourgeois', if anything, with well-to-do 'middle class', so it's yet another term we'd have to start redefining. Let's not go there.
admice wrote:If it's a true democracy, you can't guarantee it wil be or remain socialist. ^^Hmmm…a post-socialist society…Class-divided society cannot be a true democracy.A truly socialist society would be democratic by definition – nobody would be able to monopolise the means of production and distribution. Everybody would have the same shared access to the world's resources (but, of course, that's not to say they would all be the same or have or want the same – far from it).So think about your own statement – would a socialist society elect to end this state of affairs? If so, why, and what would they replace it with?
mcolome1 wrote:our problems do not start at the point of consumption, but at the point of productionVery well put – says it in a nutshell.
