robbo203
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Does anyone know anything about this – what appears to be proposed legislation in France criminalizing anti-zionist (that is, opposition to Israeli nationalism) sentiments under the deceitful pretence that is somehow anti-semitic (that is, a form of racism)?
If it is what it appears to be that is quite alarming. It could set a precedent…
French Senate proposes law making anti-Zionism a criminal offence with up to 5 years jail
“All those discussions should kept privately like all other organizations”
______________________
With respect, I don’t think the SPGB should do this. This is one of the things that makes the SPGB so unique – its transparency. It is a key aspect of a democratic culture.
On the other hand, I do understand the concern you raise about the safety and security of individuals. There are compromise solutions that can ensure this while maintaining the transparent and democratic nature of the organisation
Post today on the SPGB’s Spopen forum by an ex-Executive Committee member.
——————————————————————-My response:
“Perhaps the leaflet could have been more forthright in its condemnation of the Israeli state, I agree, but, in fairness, it did talk about Israel´s “savage retaliation” and the dire consequences for ordinary Palestinians of the blockade (though unfortunately, it talked of only “hundreds” of Palestinians as having died when I think the figure is over 8000 already and rising). My criticism would be that talking about the actions of the Israeli state as “retaliation” kind of decontextualizes the conflict and the decades-long oppression and murder visited upon Palestinian workers by the racist Israeli state (which is exactly what is and we shouldn’t mince our words about this!). “Retaliation” is the wrong word in this context as it could be misconstrued to suggest that the Israeli state was blameless to begin with. It is not
The other point I would make is that while the leaflet is right to condemn Hamas we shouldn’t appear to be buying into the official Israeli government narrative by talking in an unqualified fashion about the “horrors unleashed on innocent people by Hamas”. There is growing evidence provided by survivors in the Kibbutzim that a lot of the victims, possibly the majority, of the Hamas raid on Oct 7th were killed by crossfire from the Israeli army, There is also zero hard evidence to support the claim that 40 babies were beheaded. This seems to have been a story on par with First World War claims of Germans bayonetting babies concocted to whip up public anger and disgust.
I would treat with caution all propaganda emanating from all sides in a military situation. It’s like they say about Truth being the first casualty of war.
This situation in Gaza is going to persist for some time and possibly escalate now with developments in Syria and Russia opening up its airbase there (Latakia?) to Syrian and Iranian transport planes (that could provide weapons to Hezbollah): The possibility of a very sharp escalation and widening of the war into a regional war is very real .- particularly if that idiot Netanyahu gives the go-ahead for Israeli planes to attack Latika (which is very well defended with surface to air missiles):; All help will break loose then. Russia could retaliate and then the US carriers stationed in the Med could be drawn directly into the conflict. That might mean a world war. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility though unlikely….
I think in view of the situation the Party needs to take a much firmer and more robust response. At the very least, another more updated leaflet is called for in my opinion”
Why American evangelists support Israeli state terrorism against Hamas terrorism
I don’t know what to make of this. Sometimes it is hard to know who or what to believe when it comes to geopolitical conflicts but this appeared in my intray:
“According to Hinkle, a Haaretz investigation (no link) revealed the number of Israeli dead is 900, not nearly 2,000; 50% of the dead were Israeli soldiers; the majority of the deaths were the result of IDF tank fire; there isn’t evidence Hamas burnt Israelis and the burns present occurred from Israeli shelling; no beheaded babies; Hamas shot less than 100 people, and most were settlers with guns.”
And some people still seem to think that a Labour government would be — could be — any different from a Tory one or, for that matter, from all previous Labour ones.
———————————————
Are there still any leftists around who take the view that workers should “vote Labour without illusions”? That was the SWP line if I recall correctly. Personally, I couldn’t tell you which of the two main contending capitalist parties I find more sickeningly obnoxious – the so-called Labour Party (when are they going to change their name BTW?) or the Tories. Even if there was some slight difference that would not be a good enough reason for voting for one or the other. Not by a long way.
What happened to that American Trot on this forum who was arguing that workers should vote for Biden against Trump on the grounds that the former was supposedly the lesser evil? I bet he has retired from politics out of complete disillusionment
I wonder what Turkey´s role in this growing crisis is going to be. Erdogan has been extremely critical of the Western regimes´ response to the situation in Gaza. Turkey is also a member of NATO and you have to wonder how this will pan out for the future of NATO itself.
I read somewhere that Turkey intends to send aid by sea to Gaza which presumably could bring it into conflict with the Israeli blockade. The last time that happened in 2010 the Israeli military boarded a Turkish ship and killed 10 civilians
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/25/turkeys-erdogan-scraps-israel-trip-over-inhumane-gaza-war
Interesting article suggesting that a Russia-Ukraine peace deal could have been reached in the spring of 2022, thus avoiding the catastrophic loss of life that followed. It was apparently the US regime that torpedoed the deal and news of their opposition to the deal was conveyed to Zelensky by the UK messenger boy, B Johnson.
Former German chancellor Gerhard Schroeder was privy to all the wheeling and dealing and provides some insight into this in this articleThis is a pretty powerful indictment of that hospital bombing. There is little doubt about whodunit or the fact that they have attempted to conceal this
Alarming or alarmist?
“The world is mustering for war. Conflict is already raging in Europe, with Russian and Ukrainian forces locked in offensive and counteroffensive. The aftermath of the Hamas terror attack upon Israel could now see the Middle East ignited.
Whether or not it does rests in part with Iran, the funder and political master of both Hamas and Hezbollah, which is now moments away from potentially plunging the world into a third world war.
The Iranian foreign minister has warned Israel that if the war is not stopped “immediately”, then “anything is possible at any moment, and the region will go out of control”. US defence secretary Lloyd Austin has warned of a very real risk of “significant escalation” of attacks on American forces and civilians.
He has good reason to be concerned. Tehran is not confining its hostility to words; its regional proxies seem determined to entangle the US further, attacking American forces with drones and missiles at the Ain Al-Asad airbase in Iraq and al-Tanf in Syria.
Iran is not shying away. Already, a US warship has shot down three cruise missiles launched by Iranian-backed Houthi terrorists in Yemen. Heading north, these missiles were potentially targeting Israel. If successful, such an attack would have far-reaching consequences for Iran, with almost certain Israeli retaliation potentially triggering a direct war – and US involvement.”
I would not put my hands in the fire for anyone of them, I could have been launched by either side because Hezbollah also have large missiles provided by Iran, and Israel have large missiles provided by the USA, and either side could have launched a faulty missiles, or could have done it intentionally,
………………………..In theory, yes, but don’t forget we are talking about Hamas not Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hamas is apparently nowhere near as strong or as well-armed as Hezbollah. Actually, according to Israeli accounts, it is not even Hamas but a group of Islamic Jihadist militants, allies of Hamas, that are supposedly responsible for the hospital outrage.
While one has to keep an open mind I think it is fair to say that a preponderance of evidence points to Israel as culpable
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israels-culture-of-deceit
Very good analysis of the situation by Simon
There is also this
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
https://twitter.com/MihajlovicMike/status/1714384179230580916
Although to be fair to the BBC one of its reporters did actually suggest the missile might have been fired by the Israeli side and so incurred the wrath of the Israeli regime:
“The Israeli government has accused the BBC of perpetuating a “modern blood libel” in its reporting of the catastrophic explosion at al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza.
In the immediate aftermath of the incident on Tuesday evening, a BBC reporter suggested that Israel was likely to be at fault. This was likened by the official Israeli government account on X, formerly known as Twitter, to the antisemitic lie that Jews have murdered Christian boys to use their blood for religious rituals.
It’s difficult to believe anything about this conflict. Were there a number of babies beheaded by Hamas or is this like the First World War propaganda about Germans bayoneting kids? That´s powerful stuff and of course, any decent human being is going to be sickened and repulsed but we have to be wary about accepting anything that comes from the MSM
In relation to the baby beheading incident, I’ve come across which strongly suggests it was made up and spread by Chinese whispers
From the same source there is also this
I came across this on the “Moon of Alabama” site. Quite interesting background information on the likely triggers of a wider regional war and how it might evolve. The bit about the US launching an attack on Syria is concerning and the prospect of drawing Russia as Syria´s ally into the conflict. But I wonder if that´s likely
“The Split In Israel And The War Of Al-Aqsa
What is the reason for the ‘Al-Aqsa Deluge’, as Hamas had named its terror operation against the Zionists?”https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/the-split-in-israel-and-the-war-of-al-aqsa.html#more
