robbo203
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While Jezza isn’t an antisemite, Morgan is a tosspot of the first order, and the equivalent question should clearly also be being put to politicians defending Israeli terrorism, ‘Socialist’ Corbyn demonstrates once again what a contemptible anti-working class scumbag he is.
…………………………….Yes, I think Corbyn blew the opportunity to put clear water between his own views and any suggestion that he approved of what Hamas did. He could have just said “Yes Hamas is a terrorist organisation but so is the Israeli state” but he didn’t. It would have stopped Morgan in his tracks although, to be fair, the latter is an absolutely terrible interviewer who should never be allowed anywhere near a recording studio: he is just an opinionated loudmouth who doesn’t give anyone the opportunity to explain themselves.
Corbyn has spoken out against Hamas, as a matter of fact. In a Twitter a day or so ago he said
“I condemn the targeting of all civilian life. That includes the deplorable acts of terror by Hamas against Israeli civilians. And that includes acts of terror by the Israeli government against Palestinian civilians. More than 11,000 people in Gaza have been killed, almost half of whom are children. ”
Tomorrow, MPs will be voting on the call for a ceasefire in Gaza. It is a simple moral choice: do you support the indiscriminate killing of human beings, or do you want to stop the further loss of life?
In the aftermath of horror, we need voices for peace and diplomacy. Instead,…
— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) November 14, 2023
I can’t see the big deal about condemning Hamas as a terrorist organisation and one that was previously supported by the Netanyahu regime as a means of drawing Palestinian support away from the PLO. Perhaps he did not want to alienate some of his supporters who like him endorse the idea of Palestinian nationalism rather than take a working-class perspective on this matter
Kaz,
But I didn’t suggest “the IDF killed the Israelis on 7/10”. All I said was that there is “growing evidence that a lot of those 1400 dead Israelis were actually killed by the IDF itself.” In other words, I agree completely with your assessment that “Hamas killed some guys and Israel killed some guys”. The people who are indulging in Qanon-type conspiracy theories are the kind of people who will swallow the lies served up by MSM about 40 babies being beheaded by Hamas without blinking twice.
Of course, it goes without saying that my position is “a pox on both your houses” as far as both the Hamas terrorists and Israeli state terrorists are concerned. Nationalism of any kind disgusts me. Hamas was a creature of the Israeli state anyway – it was initially supported and funded by Netanyahu and his band of racist thugs as a counterweight to the PLO. Hamas uses Palestinian workers in the same way that the Zionists use Israeli workers. To hell with both of them but in the meanwhile, we have the absolute obscenity of thousands of innocent internees of the Gaza concentration camp being bombed out of existence while creeps like Sunak and Starmer witter on pathetically about “Israel having a right to self-defense”
https://www.tbsnews.net/hamas-israel-war/how-israel-went-helping-create-hamas-bombing-it-718378
This is one of the reasons why SPEW is beating the SPGB in the search rankings for sure.
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In that case, why not put it down as “worldsocialism.org/TheSocialistParty”? That will get ´em!
From the Daily Heil
“Three women have pleaded not guilty to displaying images indicating support for banned terrorist organisation Hamas at a pro-Palestinian march in central London.
Heba Alhayek, 29, Pauline Ankunda, 26, and Noimutu Olayinka Taiwo, 27, were all charged under the Terrorism Act as part of the same investigation, for allegedly wearing or displaying images of paragliders during the demonstration in Whitehall on October 14.
“Prosecutor Mark Luckett said: ‘The prosecution say that there is a clear and unique association between the image of a paraglider and the Hamas terrorist attack a week earlier.’
He added that wearing an item of clothing displaying an image associated with the Hamas attacks ‘glorifies the actions of the group by celebrating the unique, successful tactic used by them’. Militants from the group, banned as a terror organisation by the UK, used paragliders to enter Israel from Gaza on October 7 before killing more than 1,400 Israelis.”
This is BS at so many levels
Firstly, there is growing evidence that a lot of those 1400 dead Israelis were actually killed by the IDF itself. Like the lie about the 40 decapitated babies what we are served up is misinformation on a massive scale which the servile MSM laps up and obediently regurgitates. Tell a lie often enough and mysteriously it somehow becomes the truth. This is a modern-day version of Goebbels
see this for example
Secondly, whilst one holds no brief for the authoritarian pro-nationalist Hamas group their terrorism pales in significance compared with the Israeli state-sponsored terrorism – not only in Gaza where more than 10, 000 people have already been murdered by the Israeli state (4000 of them, children) but also on the west bank where more than 150 Palestinian workers have been killed under the vile racist Netanyahu regime since its forces invaded the Gaza concentration camp last month.
So it’s a crime to have a picture of some paragliders on your back but it’s not a crime to support military action that leads to the cold-blooded murder of 4000 kids. How sick can you get? And these are the same people who will shed crocodile tears over Russian missiles destroying apartments in Ukraine (but not Ukrainian missiles destroying apartments in Donbas) when all missiles, no matter who they are aimed at or by whom , should be condemned outright as an abomination
The double standards and hypocrisy just take your breath away
This site has some useful comparative data though I do not know how reliable it is
According to it, average annual working hours are
India 2480
USA 1892
Japan 1903
UK 1866
Germany 1783https://clockify.me/working-hours
The figure for India is particularly interesting. Sunak´s father-in-law, a capitalist, has recently whinged on about Indian workers not working hard enough
“Narayana Murthy says India’s work culture must change: ‘Youngsters should work 70 hours a week’ Narayana Murthy called for more discipline and improvement in work productivity. ‘Our culture has to change to that of highly determined, extremely disciplined and extremely hard-working people,’ he said.”
This is clear proof that time travel does exist and that it is indeed possible for someone from the Victorian era to re-materialise in 21st century.
On the other hand, I am not quite sure what century Elon Musk hails from with his odd assertion that AI will mean there will be no more work to be done but for some strange reason, money will persist and we will all enjoy a “Universal high income”
Some background context
Massive Oil and Gas Reserves Discovered Under Gaza – Israel Grants Development Licenses
Perhaps that helps to explain Israel´s apparent attempt to ethnically cleanse Gaza which some Israeli politicians are calling for – at least according to this guy
https://kurtnimmo.substack.com/p/gaza-ceasefire?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
This link was sent to me. The writer talks of “Karl Marx’s dream was of state-regulated general production that allowed liberated workers to “hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner” without the drudgery of being tied to one job.”
Does anyone know anything about this – what appears to be proposed legislation in France criminalizing anti-zionist (that is, opposition to Israeli nationalism) sentiments under the deceitful pretence that is somehow anti-semitic (that is, a form of racism)?
If it is what it appears to be that is quite alarming. It could set a precedent…
French Senate proposes law making anti-Zionism a criminal offence with up to 5 years jail
“All those discussions should kept privately like all other organizations”
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With respect, I don’t think the SPGB should do this. This is one of the things that makes the SPGB so unique – its transparency. It is a key aspect of a democratic culture.
On the other hand, I do understand the concern you raise about the safety and security of individuals. There are compromise solutions that can ensure this while maintaining the transparent and democratic nature of the organisation
Post today on the SPGB’s Spopen forum by an ex-Executive Committee member.
——————————————————————-My response:
“Perhaps the leaflet could have been more forthright in its condemnation of the Israeli state, I agree, but, in fairness, it did talk about Israel´s “savage retaliation” and the dire consequences for ordinary Palestinians of the blockade (though unfortunately, it talked of only “hundreds” of Palestinians as having died when I think the figure is over 8000 already and rising). My criticism would be that talking about the actions of the Israeli state as “retaliation” kind of decontextualizes the conflict and the decades-long oppression and murder visited upon Palestinian workers by the racist Israeli state (which is exactly what is and we shouldn’t mince our words about this!). “Retaliation” is the wrong word in this context as it could be misconstrued to suggest that the Israeli state was blameless to begin with. It is not
The other point I would make is that while the leaflet is right to condemn Hamas we shouldn’t appear to be buying into the official Israeli government narrative by talking in an unqualified fashion about the “horrors unleashed on innocent people by Hamas”. There is growing evidence provided by survivors in the Kibbutzim that a lot of the victims, possibly the majority, of the Hamas raid on Oct 7th were killed by crossfire from the Israeli army, There is also zero hard evidence to support the claim that 40 babies were beheaded. This seems to have been a story on par with First World War claims of Germans bayonetting babies concocted to whip up public anger and disgust.
I would treat with caution all propaganda emanating from all sides in a military situation. It’s like they say about Truth being the first casualty of war.
This situation in Gaza is going to persist for some time and possibly escalate now with developments in Syria and Russia opening up its airbase there (Latakia?) to Syrian and Iranian transport planes (that could provide weapons to Hezbollah): The possibility of a very sharp escalation and widening of the war into a regional war is very real .- particularly if that idiot Netanyahu gives the go-ahead for Israeli planes to attack Latika (which is very well defended with surface to air missiles):; All help will break loose then. Russia could retaliate and then the US carriers stationed in the Med could be drawn directly into the conflict. That might mean a world war. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility though unlikely….
I think in view of the situation the Party needs to take a much firmer and more robust response. At the very least, another more updated leaflet is called for in my opinion”
Why American evangelists support Israeli state terrorism against Hamas terrorism
I don’t know what to make of this. Sometimes it is hard to know who or what to believe when it comes to geopolitical conflicts but this appeared in my intray:
“According to Hinkle, a Haaretz investigation (no link) revealed the number of Israeli dead is 900, not nearly 2,000; 50% of the dead were Israeli soldiers; the majority of the deaths were the result of IDF tank fire; there isn’t evidence Hamas burnt Israelis and the burns present occurred from Israeli shelling; no beheaded babies; Hamas shot less than 100 people, and most were settlers with guns.”
And some people still seem to think that a Labour government would be — could be — any different from a Tory one or, for that matter, from all previous Labour ones.
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Are there still any leftists around who take the view that workers should “vote Labour without illusions”? That was the SWP line if I recall correctly. Personally, I couldn’t tell you which of the two main contending capitalist parties I find more sickeningly obnoxious – the so-called Labour Party (when are they going to change their name BTW?) or the Tories. Even if there was some slight difference that would not be a good enough reason for voting for one or the other. Not by a long way.
What happened to that American Trot on this forum who was arguing that workers should vote for Biden against Trump on the grounds that the former was supposedly the lesser evil? I bet he has retired from politics out of complete disillusionment
I wonder what Turkey´s role in this growing crisis is going to be. Erdogan has been extremely critical of the Western regimes´ response to the situation in Gaza. Turkey is also a member of NATO and you have to wonder how this will pan out for the future of NATO itself.
I read somewhere that Turkey intends to send aid by sea to Gaza which presumably could bring it into conflict with the Israeli blockade. The last time that happened in 2010 the Israeli military boarded a Turkish ship and killed 10 civilians
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/25/turkeys-erdogan-scraps-israel-trip-over-inhumane-gaza-war
