robbo203
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So the population of Ukraine is in the tens of millions and your Nazis number in the hundreds of thousands.
The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments, (just as the majority of Russian army is not Wagner or Chechen mercenaries)
___________________________________________________________If there is one thing that is almost designed to drive the non-Nazi majority of Ukrainians into the hands of the Nazi minority that is Putin’s stupid senseless blunder to invade Ukraine. You don’t “de-nazify” by terrorizing a population and bombing their homes. All that does is whip up reactionary Ukrainianian ultra-nationalism and thereby render them more susceptible to Nazi influence
The conflict is justified. Fighting Nazis is always the right thing to do. It is something Russians don’t shy away from given that they killed 8 out of 10 Nazis during WW2.
______________________________________________________BS The conflict has got nothing to do with fighting nazis. Our resident Putin bootlicker can’t seem to distinguish between the pretext for war, the excuses made by the warmongers for going to war, and the actual causes of war which are essentially economic in nature. The Putin capitalist regime couldn’t care two hoots about Ukraine’s conspicuous lack of democracy since it is a carbon of the latter in so many respects. If Ukraine is a Nazi regime then so too is Russia even if it doesn’t call itself that
To say True Stalinist’s arguments are pisspoor is an understatement. He claims that only a third of the Ukrainian military are fascists but it’s the influence of nazi ideology that matters, not the numbers. So what proportion of the Ukrainian population are Nazis in that case, eh, TS? Also, you might want to explain how raining down missiles on the Ukrainian population is going to somehow change them from being the Nazis you claim they are, into anti-Nazis or non-nazis.
If anything it’s going to have the opposite effect. The invasion of Ukraine by the Russian imperialist capitalist regime is going to solidify the forces of Nazism within Ukraine and these could well gain more influence thanks to Putin’s stupid blunder. If you want to encourage the growth of nazism riding on the back of a wave of delusional ultra-nationalism then you could not have done better than do what that idiot Putin has done
Lol, you’re not committed to doing anything. You couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. What is SPGB doing right now to take advantage of the capitalist crisis we’re living through? I bet not one God damn thing.
______________________________________________________________LOL And what are YOU doing to ..er…”take advantage of the capitalist crisis we’re living through”. What does that even mean? You and dyed-in-the-wool utopian reformists like Lizzie45 imagine that capitalism can be administered in the interests of workers and presumably that if you protest hard enough things will be significantly different and maybe even that the built-in capitalist trade cycle of boom and bust can be made to vanish with a wave of your magic wand. It is people like you that build up unsustainable illusions about capitalism that inevitably result in disillusionment apathy and despair. At least socialists are realists when it comes to capitalism
Which means you don’t care if Nazis win. Well, thankfully, most sane people in the world don’t share your view. Only the propaganda-addled western publics of whom you’re all members.
________________________________________________________________There are Nazis in Ukraine but that does not mean the people as a whole or the government as a whole are Nazis. You might equally call the Russian regime Nazi because there are de facto Nazis there even if they don’t call themselves that. After all, the Russian regime is remarkably similar to the Ukrainian regime in being thoroughly autocratic and anti-democratic, ultra-nationalist, and run in the interests of a tiny class of oligarchs
So once again tell us, True Stalinist – what percentage of the Ukrainian, army, government, and population are actual bona fide Nazis? Why do you keep evading this question??
Finally, it is rich of you to accuse socialists of being members of the “propaganda-addled western public” when you yourself rely on right-wing western conspiracy sites and Russian propaganda sites in your craven support for the capitalist Putin regime. Socialists draw information from a range of sites but our anti-nationalist message is certainly not compatible with the propaganda pumped out by these sites. In no way could accuse us of being pro-Ukraine for example since we have made it abundantly clear we oppose both regimes in this capitalist conflict. Unlike yours, our brains are not addled
“Rubbish. You use Marxism to argue against actually existing Marxist societies. You are reactionaries.”
———————————————-This is the sort of bilge that right wing crusties and readers of the daily telegraph would say – “Marxist societies”. Jeez, what planet is this guy from?
Robotomy, I try to avoid commenting on the war until I’ve listened to analysis from those with military expertise or who have analysed what such people say. And, having done so, it seems clear that this was an orderly Russian retreat with no loss of life. Therefore, merely a tactical setback in one section of a hugely sprawling battlefield. The Russians have had plenty of them but the overall picture has always remained the same. They’re winning decisively.
__________________________________________________________True Stalinist
So a tactical retreat means “winning decisively”. LOL, And, by the way, it’s not just in one “section of a hugely sprawling battlefield” the Russian military is retreating with a huge loss of life. The same thing happened in the North too. It seems that the authoritarian capitalist regime of Ukraine is gaining ground over the authoritarian capitalist regime of Russia that you support. If I had to guess, the probable outcome is going to be a stalemate with no side winning decisively
“Bojo’s Brain keep your skat fantasies to yourself.”
Oh, so no explanation from you as to why you think the Ukrainian capture of Kherson is a striking example of how the Ukrainian regime is “decisively losing the war”. I am disappointed TS. I was so looking forward to yet another of your rambling incoherent attempts to square the circle
Robotomy, there’s no egg on my face you credulous dupe. Ukraine is losing decisively, and even a smooth brained Guardian Brah such as yourself will soon have to face the truth. I look forward to rubbing your nose in it.
_______________________________________________________It doesn’t look like that at the moment does it, True Stalinist? How do you interpret the Ukrainian capture of Kherson as “Ukraine losing decisively”? Or the Ukrainian advances up in the North for that matter? I appreciate you live in a kind of Alice in Wonderland bubble where lies morph into truths and vice versa, but come on old chap – this is stretching matters a wee bit too far, don’t you think?
Still, I would be fascinated to hear your explanation as to why you think the Ukrainians capturing Kherson is clear proof that they are “decisively losing the war”. You are an endless source of amusement so continue keeping us all amused. Perhaps you imagine you are a brilliant military strategist and that this is just some kind of clever military ruse that we lesser mortals are quite unable to grasp. We shall see.
And no you won’t ever have the pleasure of ever rubbing my nose in it when the outcome of this stupid war is settled. Unlike you, I am a socialist and support neither side. Whichever authoritarian capitalist regime wins this war, Russian and Ukrainian workers will have lost
“LOL, Robotomy, you are funny. Since we’re in fantasy land…unicorns are real, drink from bubblegum lakes and fart rainbows.”
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Come to think of it, True Stalinist, that rather colourfully sums up your own position doesn’t it? But by all means carry on bootlicking your favourite capitalist, V Putin, if you so wish. Don’t let the egg on your face deter you
Well, it is beginning to look like the authoritarian capitalist regime of Ukraine is gaining the upper hand over the authoritarian capitalist regime of Russia. So much for rash claims made here about victory being assured for the latter in this stupid pointless inter-capitalist conflict. How many working-class lives have been lost on both sides for no good reason whatsoever
_______________________________________________________________“The Kremlin has ordered its forces to withdraw from the city of Kherson on the Black Sea coast in southern Ukraine.
The order comes eight months after the Russians captured Kherson and its 300,000 residents, six months after Ukrainian troops began bombarding the Kherson garrison’s supply line and two months after Ukrainian brigades launched a counteroffensive in the south aimed at liberating Kherson.
It’s a profound victory for Ukraine, and a major defeat for Russia. Arguably the biggest Russian defeat in a generation.
The Ukrainians already had the momentum in Russia’s nine-month-old wider war on Ukraine. Now it’s safe to say the Ukrainians actively are winning the war—and soon could advance on other Russian-occupied territories and cities. The destroyed historic port of Mariupol, for instance. Or even the strategic Crimean Peninsula.”
“Actually, the exact opposite is true. The Russian people overwhelmingly supported Bolshevism. Of the 300 million people living in the USSR about 150 million people participated in the 1991 referendum asking whether or not to maintain the Union. 76% voted in favor of its preservation. That’s overwhelming Wez”
_______________________________________________________How does voting in favour of maintaining the soviet union translate into “supporting bolshevism”? These are two quite separate things. Actually, the old state capitalist “command economy” was already under assault from the 1960s onwards with the Liberman reforms etc It was the “revolution from above” carried out by sections of the red bourgeoisie that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. 75% of the modern Russian oligarchic class were originally well-placed and privileged members of the Soviet Union’s old state capitalist class
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“No it was betrayed.’
TS – By whom?”By the Soviet leaders who rejected the result of the referendum and dissolved the USSR anyway. President Boris Yeltsin of Russia, President Kravchuk of Ukraine, and Chairman Shushkevich of Belarus. Mikhail Gorbachev must also take s great deal of the blame.”
__________________________________________________________You support an authoritarian capitalist regime like Putin’s. This is what authoritarian capitalist regimes do to people who naively place their trust in leaders or swallow the BS nationalist arguments for going to war with other countries. They betray them
“Russia is not imperialist. It does not intend to rule the world. The only people who believe otherwise are smooth brained Guardian bros.”
——————————Other imperialist powers like the US similarly say they do not intend to rule the world and support the sovereign rights of nations to exist as independent entities. Only smooth-brained users of right-wing conspiracy theory sites believe capitalist Russia is any different
“I don’t know what name one gives to the overthrow of centuries of US/European hegemony if not revolutionary. What would you call it?”
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A redistribution of power from one capitalist bloc to another. Hardly a revolution!
Capitalism is further entrenched by its gullible supporters such as yourself with your far-right Trumplike views in favour of a fascistic-cum-authoritarian type of capitalist oligarchy such as exists in Putin’s Russia. Spare me the bleatings of useful idiots in the service of capitalism such as yourself. You are the kind of cannon fodder that would willingly offer their bodies and minds to the cause of some capitalist nation – or, at least in your case from the comfort of your armchair. If you feel so passionately about the war aims of your beloved Putin whose boots you slavishly lick, why don’t you join your fellow far-right comrades and become a mercenary? Why not put your money where your mouth is? You think the Russian capitalist regime is worth supporting so why not go and support it?
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“This is what passes for debate on this thread? Robbo, the adults are talking. Run along child, the playground is over there.”
______________________________________________________________Says the kid whose only response to logical debate is sexual innuendo.
No, Russia is revolutionary. It is acting to overturn the US/NATO hegemony encapsulated in the “rules based international order”, ie. The US/NATO make the rules and all others follow orders. Russia, by standing up to US/NATO aggression, is birthing a new multi-polar world that will be far more democratic and far less authoritarian. Yet you lot are all too dim to see because you’re ideological fanatics who actually support the status quo in all your missives.
_________________________________________LOL LOL LOL. So supporting one disgusting authoritarian capitalist regime against another is …er…” revolutionary” and is going to somehow advance the cause of global democracy.
This guy gets more and more hilarious with every contribution he makes to this debate. Keep it up, TS. We could all do with a good chuckle in these gloomy times…
“Every single claim in your long list is a lie propagated by the bourgeois press, academia and intelligence servcies. As you’re a Guardian Bro you are a credulous consumer of such untruths. You will wholeheartedly believe the most ridiculous claims made about socialists because you hate them. You only use Marxism to trash Marxists. Grover Furr does a great job debunking every one of the lies of the bourgeois press that you’ve just parroted”
_______________________________________________LOL This guy is living in a little bubble totally disconnected from reality. He bootlicks a repugnant authoritarian capitalist regime like the Putin regime and unquestioningly cites dodgy far-right conspiracy theory-based sources to back his ridiculous claims while mocking the sources of others. Then – fantasy of fantasies – he imagines himself to be some sort of Marxist or socialist. Ha! TS knows sod all about Marxism and socialism and scoffs at the Marxian concept of socialism (as do others like him on the far right) while advancing a completely idealist non-Marxist explanation of the war in Ukraine….
Never underestimate the power of ideology to beguile …
