robbo203
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
There are historical precedents for this sort of talk…
In the early 19th century, the Scottish merchant, Patrick Colquhoun, who
set up the country’s first private “preventative” police force to
deter incidents of theft among poorly paid dockworkers, declared:“Poverty is therefore a most necessary and indispensable
ingredient in society…It is the source of wealth, since without
poverty, there could be no labour; there could be no riches, no
refinement, no comfort, and no benefit to those who may be
possessed of wealth. (Patrick Colquhoun, 1806, A Treatise on
Indigence, London)Another commentator, the Reverend Joseph Townsend, was
even more brutally forthright on the matter[Direct] legal constraint [to labour] . . . is attended with too much
trouble, violence, and noise, . . . whereas hunger is not only a
peaceable, silent, unremitted pressure, but as the most natural
motive to industry, it calls forth the most powerful exertions. . . . Hunger will tame the fiercest animals, it will teach decency and
civility, obedience and subjugation to the most brutish, the most
obstinate, and the most perverse. (Joseph Townsend, 1786, A
Dissertation on the Poor Laws)“What percentage of Germans were Nazis? And what does it even matter? If you’re fighting for a Nazi state you are as guilty as the criminals ordering you to battle.”
__________________________________________________________________–Ukraine no more claims to be a Nazi state than Russia does even though both sides have Nazis fighting for them and both claim the other side is Nazi. Given the remarkable similarity between these regimes if according to him Ukraine is a Nazi state then why is Russia also not a Nazi state in all but name?
“Ritter thinks Moscow will give Kiev one last chance to negotiate after Donbass is taken. If the offer is refused, it’ll be all the way to the Polish border.”
__________________________________
…As one might expect of an imperialist capitalist regime like Russia even if its imperialism is not quite as geographically successful as NATO imperialism (which has recently expanded thanks in part to Russia´s own imperialistic annexations and militaristic interventions ….)
Moreover, the Nazis in Kiev have fed most of their best troops into the battle there allowing Russia to proceed with its main mission of de-Nazifying and demilitarisaing Ukraine.
____________________________________________________Once again TS shows his idealist and distinctly non-materialist interpretation of the events unfolding in Ukraine by depicting it as some kind of epic struggle between Nazis and Anti-Nazi ideals. This notwithstanding the fact that there are very clearly self-identifying Nazis fighting on BOTH sides of this capitalist conflict and this notwithstanding the fact that the Russian and Ukrainian regimes are remarkably similar in outlook and practice – far right, authoritarian ultranationalistic and corrupt oligarchies. If Ukraine is a Nazi state then so too is Russia in all but name.
On the question of idealism, I wonder if he endorses Putin´s quasi-mystical putrid nationalism and frankly homophobic sentiments in his recent rant against “western decadence”.
I have still to get an answer from our resident Putin bootlicker regarding what proportion of the Ukrainian population does he consider to be Nazis 5%? 20% 70% What? It is curious that he is so reluctant to address this question. I wonder why….
These two idiots grandstanding and calling for jets to be given to the Ukrainian regime. Expect more working-class lives to be lost in the stupid senseless capitalist war. Capitalism is truly a sociopathic disorder
“Fighting Nazis is glorious work. Nazi “workers” are still Nazis. The lowest form of life. They’d happily put a bullet in the back of your head what with you being a professed “socialist”. Obviously, you’re not a socialist but you’re too dumb to figure that out and so are Nazis so bullet it would be. Lol”
___________________________________________________This is the kind of sentiment you would expect a Nazi to say. The only difference between our virulently anti-socialist troll for Russian imperialism and a Nazi lies in the label. He would happily put a bullet in the back of some Ukrainian worker at the behest of his beloved capitalist warlord, Putin, except for the fact that he evidently hasn’t got the balls to volunteer and enlist for the side fighting for Russian capitalism against the equally odious cause of Ukrainian capitalism. He is all mouth, our TS, and no trousers.
This crass idealist thinks this war is being fought over ideals – Nazism versus anti-Nazism – but has yet to tell us what proportion of the Ukrainian population are Nazis in his opinion to justify his stance and, also, why it is that there are self-declared Nazis fighting on the side of Russian capitalism. Perhaps the thought of children and old folk buried under the rubble of buildings destroyed by Russian missiles must strike him as a “glorious” spectacle to behold. Personally, I think the views TS expresses are sick and disgusting. They betray a sociopathic anti-working-class view of the world.
Yes, I know the Ukrainian side has done equally horrendous things – like the bombing of Donbas since 2014 with the loss of thousands of civilian lives – and I am no less critical of them. But two wrongs don’t make a right. At the root of all this is minds diseased by toxic nationalism and its Big Lie – that workers have a country to defend. The hell they do.
War and warmongering turns all who advocate for it into de facto NAZIS – or Nazis in all but name – in their callous disregard for human life
This is an interesting situation. If the Putin regime justifies its imperialist annexation of the Donbas etc on the grounds that the local inhabitants wanted it, how would it respond to an attempt by one part of Russia – in this case, Siberia – to secede from Moscow rule if a majority of the citizens of Siberia wanted it? Surely, it would be a clear case of double standards if it refused them the right to do so?
I don’t know how serious is this drive toward “Siberian independence” and it is of little consequence or interest, anyway. All nationalism is a load of utter claptrap whether it is Ukrainian nationalism or Russian nationalism or British nationalism. But it is significant – is it not? – that in Russia´s case, these independence referendums are not binding, “and may be illegal under a law against challenging Russia’s “territorial integrity”. ” What does that tell you?
An interesting article on the munitions question:
“Russia also requires vast amounts of ammunition. However, Putin has put his entire economy on a war footing. It is not subject to the same commercial constraints as Nato’s defence industry, and Russian producers are not constrained by concerns over industrial safety. Nato must strive to ramp up production before Moscow resolves the inefficiencies, corruption and inertia of its manufacturing base.”
Thanks to the loathsome capitalist warmongers on both sides of this sordid conflict we can expect to see much more spent on the military in the future at the expense of socially useful production – not to mention tens of thousands of working-class lives lost for the sake of their respective capitalist warlords, Messrs Putin and Zelensky. It makes you sick at the very thought of it….
The capitalist “Labour” Party, even more than the capitalist Tory Party, is now the “Party of Business” according to this report. How is it even remotely possible for anyone with even the slightest pretensions to being a “socialist”, to remain in this shoddy disreputable capitalist outfit or to urge that we vote for it on the grounds that it is the so-called “lesser evil”
“Rubbish. Russia has no imperial ambitions. Quite the opposite. It is at the coal face of the struggle against NATOstani(read US) imperial hegemony. If you weren’t blinkered by ideology you would know this. But you can only lead a horse to water. You can’t make it drink.”
_________________________________________
Once again TS demonstrates he has no understanding of what imperialism means. He equates this merely with territorial expansion backed by military force – although even on this very narrow definition Russia qualifies, without a shadow of doubt, as an imperialist power. How else are we to understand the annexation of Crimea and the Donbas for example?
His idealist and emphatically non-materialist explanation for the war in Ukraine gives overriding importance to the role of ideology. This is a struggle against Nazism according to TS (notwithstanding that there is little to choose between the Ukrainian and Russian regimes in terms of their repressive authoritarian character or that self-identifying Nazis can be found on both sides of this conflict). TS has rejected the Marxist explanation that at the root of this conflict is the usual capitalist rivalries over markets, resources, trade routes, and points of strategic importance.
True to his conspiracy-coloured view of the world, he refers to some neo-con think tank white papers and RAND reports (no references provided) to bolster his view that Western imperialist powers seek to “break up Russia into statelets, pauperise the population, privatise all state assets and steal anything not nailed to the floor” All this, he assures, “you will find written in exquisite detail” in the aforementioned papers and reports. Maybe you can (or maybe you can´t) but it does not follow that the events that unfolded in Ukraine can be explained in terms of stated intentions and hallucinatory fantasies expressed by a handful of neocon crazies in some relatively obscure publications which 99.999% of the population would not have clapped eyes upon.
That is not the way a “materialist” would analyse the situation and, of course, it hardly needs to be pointed out that it was the Russian oligarchs themselves (mostly ex-high-ranking apparatchiks of the pseudo-Russian “communist” party) who were at the forefront of “privatising state assets and stealing everything not nailed to the floor” following the collapse of Soviet state capitalism. The Putin regime is precisely the official representative of this Russian oligarchic capitalist class with Putin himself being one of them
“The new world that is emerging will be based on win-win economic relations rather than naked aggression, coups and ruthless exploitation. Socialism will have breathing space to thrive in this new environment but only if the US and the other core imperialist counties (Europe. Australia/New Zealand, Japan and Singapore) are defeated in their ambitions to maintain the status quo.”
____________________________________________________This is delusional on so many levels
TS´s conception of “socialism” is about as “socialist” as the “socialism” of the German Nazi Party. His outlook is the “red fascism” of far-right Stalinists who like their counterparts in nazi Germany are fiercely ultranationalist, disgustingly elitist, and show complete contempt for working-class lives (TS gets off on the idea of turning fellow workers into “fertilizer”).
He has zero understanding of what capitalism is about – let alone socialism. He does not seem at all familiar with the Marxian explanation of capitalism as a system of generalised wage labour that must operate in the interest of capital and hence against wage labour. Preposterously, and in direct opposition to the Marxian position, he seems to imagine that the state sector of the capitalist economy is somehow “noncapitalist”. How is that even possible if according to Marxist theory, the state is an institutional tool that exists to serve the interest of the ruling class- in this case, a capitalist ruling class?
The fact that politicians and not capitalists themselves for the most part do not directly administer capitalism via the capitalist state is completely irrelevant. The politicians are obliged to administer capitalism in the only way it can be administered – in the interests of capital
Just because much of the state sector is unproductive in the sense that it does not produce commodities (and therefore does not generate profits) does not alter the fact that it is indispensable to capitalism and its profit motive. Adam Smith knew this well enough but not our economically illiterate TS. The military, for example, exists to protect and promote the interests of the domestic capitalist class in their competitive struggles against rivals for markets, resources, and points of strategic interest. War is essentially an extension of this economic conflict into the military field.
Hilariously, TS fancies himself as a “materialist” – actually, he is a self-declared idealist who thinks capitalist conflicts like the current one in Ukraine is fought over rival ideologies like Nazism – and pompously tell us that “his posts are meant to inform those who are actually materialists”, not “ideologues” like ourselves…..
He declares
“China is run by Marxists as is Vietnam, Cuba and Laos. The leaders of all these countries disagree that the profit motive is inherent to their societies. It is a temporary and necessary stage on their road to communism.”
Seriously? This is so goddamn stupid that I don’t know whether or laugh or cry at the sheer insanity of it. China is a billionaire´s paradise. The Chinese ruling class has ZERO intention of ever heading for a moneyless wageless stateless and classless society. Why should it when it is the direct beneficiary of the status quo – the existing class-based society capitalist society? TS calls himself a “materialist”. Can he cite one case throughout recorded history when a ruling class has gone completely against its own interest and has willingly and voluntarily opted for its own extinction? Some materialist!
The Chinese ruling class is never going to willingly relinquish its power and economic status in capitalist society any more than the American or British ruling class will. It will have to be forced to do so by the conscious and democratic will of the majority – the working class.
Finally, what are we to make of this gibberish?:
“the new world that is emerging will be based on win-win economic relations rather than naked aggression, coups and ruthless exploitation”.
This is as dumb as the capitalist hard sell attempted by anarcho-capitalists who like to reassure us that there is no class struggle in capitalism and that the interests of workers and capitalists are convergent. A “win-win situation” my arse!
Chinese capitalist imperialism is driven by what is called “brute force economics” intent upon eliminating the competition and reducing client states to a state of dependence on China. TS like the gullible fool he is has fallen for the hard sell – the ideology – in complete contravention of his supposed “materialism”. He should do some reading
The supposed “multipolar” world we are meant to be emerging into does not in the least spell the weakening, let alone the end, of imperialism. Imperialism is merely the transnational expression of capitalism´s expansionist dynamic and it can take many forms – not just in the form of setting up American military bases everywhere as some naive leftists (and rightists) contend. What we are seeing is merely a reconfiguration of the map of global imperialism in favour of Asia.
Imperialism, whether in its manifest or latent form, whether in its military or economic guise, is intrinsic to capitalism and is a tendency that exists in every single country in the world. This is because every single country in the world is capitalist.
This exposes the utter absurdity of TS´s position. He thinks imperialism is confined to just capitalist states like America. He has bought into the idealist concept of American exceptionalism. There is something in the nature of American society that uniquely makes it imperialist. This is the same childish idea that feeds into the notion that wars are about “good” versus “evil”.
In TS´s case, it’s the evil empire of America versus Holy Mother Russia led by Saint Putin.
Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
Actually it’s very important because it puts into question your claims to be materialists and therefore Marxists. If you are nothing but ideologues confirming your own biases through MSM rags and CIA front groups then you are not materialists. And therefore not Marxists. But we already knew that didn’t we?
__________________________
lol TS, You get more entertaining by the minute. You wouldn’t know what a “materialist” was, let alone a socialist if you tripped over Marx´s beard as someone once colourfully put it. I don’t know why you even presume to have any connection with Marxism or Marxist thought. You have made your contempt for the Marxian objective – the abolition of the wages system – pretty apparent. You have fully declared your absolute and undying fealty to Russian capitalism and your capitalist warlord cum master, Putin, whose boots you lick like some faithful poodle.
It’s amusing also that you consider we are nothing but “ideologues confirming your own biases through MSM rags and CIA front groups”. I would love to know what MSM rag or CIA front it is that you have in mind that shares our principled opposition to both sides in this capitalist conflict. Care to name one TS or is this just the usual ill-informed bluster that you come out with ? As a muddlehead you are unsurpassed on the pages of this debate forum.
I think your disgusting anti-working class views, your dehumanizing view of fellow workers as mere cannon fodder or raw material to turn into “fertilizer” puts you on par with the fascists you claim to oppose. Your far-right ultra-nationalism is certainly something you share with them.
As has been pointed out before if you feel so passionately about the cause of Russian capitalism why not volunteer to take up arms on behalf of your capitalist master instead of being the perpetual armchair warrior cum computer nerd scouring the web for conspiracy sites to fuel your nationalist fantasies? Do you have the bottle to put your money where your mouth is and bugger off Russia if you feel so strongly about this cause? It would be good to have some sanity restored to this forum sans the ravings of a quasi-fascist like yourself
In a battle for a city, the customary rule is that it is the attacker who suffers the heavier casualties, not the defenders. I see no evidence that the battle for Bahkmut should be any different.”
Erm, except that your assumption isn’t true.
__________________________More distraction from the main issue – the anti-working class aspect of this capitalist conflict
More drivel from TS who continues to comprehensively miss the point as per usual…
It is frankly irrelevant from the standpoint of this forum whether Russia is winning this war, whether decisively or otherwise. “Decisively” is not a word that springs to mind, though. The small territorial gains the Russian military and its mercenary supporters have recently made to offset territorial losses it suffered last year, have come at an enormous cost and the battle for Bahkmut is still not over after months and months of fighting.
Yes, we know there is more to this war than just territory and TS continues in his pointless endeavor to teach his grandmother to suck eggs. Sure Russia´s population (and military) is substantially larger than Ukraine´s and you would expect, all things being equal, for the former to prevail over the latter. Although all things are not equal and it would seem that morale and determination would favour the Ukrainian side. At any rate, it is difficult to predict the outcome of the war if for no other reason than that we cannot rule out completely the possibility of NATO forces being drawn directly into the conflict. In that case, we are talking about a whole different ball game. The Russian military would be comprehensively destroyed in that case but, if things went nuclear, we would all be destroyed
But all this is by the by. The real issue here is what should be the attitude of socialists to this stupid senseless war?
TS has made it perfectly plain that he fervently sides with Russian capitalism in this war. Laughably, this clown goes on about “faux socialists”, having demonstrated again and again his vehement opposition to socialism which he doesn’t really understand anyway given that he seems to think the state sector of the capitalist economy amounts to “socialism”. If anything is “faux socialist” it is that.
This war is a war being fought over capitalist interests as TS himself has inadvertently revealed – with himself identifying strongly with the interests of Russian capitalism and its appalling far-right repressive capitalist regime against the equally appalling far-right repressive capitalist regime of Ukraine (both sides of which have their own fascist supporters). Whoever “wins” this war, the workers on both sides will have lost.
And that, TS, is the real issue we should be focussing on here – not looking upon this sordid conflict from the dehumanized perspective of some parody of an armchair military strategist who whiles away his time scouring the web for conspiracy sites to lend support to his perverse bourgeois-nationalist take on the world
What a great idea! That’s the kind of direct action I would endorse if I were a trade unionist on strike. And the idea of making free energy available might encourage some people to think more on our wavelength. The problem I guess is that it is difficult to see how such a strategy could be extended to other sectors of the economy…..
