robbo203
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Good to see others opposing this brutal capitalist war….
“No War but the Class War: Statement from NWBCW Miami”
“….Likewise, the scattered anti-war actions that have been reported so far—protests in Russia, soldiers disobeying their orders in Ukraine, refusals to handle shipments by dockers in the UK and Italy, sabotage by railway workers in Belarus—need to take on an autonomous working-class perspective to be truly anti-war, otherwise, they will be ripe for manipulation by one of the warring capitalist powers. Support for Russia or Ukraine in this conflict means support for war. The only way to end this nightmare is not for workers to line up on one side of it, but to fraternize across borders to bring down the war machine.
This is why we say, emphatically: no war but the class war! The ruling classes are already waging their war on us and the planet. If they want more war and bloodletting, let them march on the battlefields themselves, rifles in hand, and fight it out amongst themselves. The working people of the world must not allow ourselves to become cannon fodder for their wars. Rather, it is up to us—the great majority without whom everything grinds to a halt—to stop our rulers’ war plans and create the alternative.”
The utter stupidity and sheer waste and destruction of this inter-capitalist war between rival imperialist blocs continues to astound me. This site has some interesting information
“Wars have been fought and lost for access to energy, be it in the form of resources such as fossil fuels, or control of strategic industries like metallurgy, or agricultural lands. For example, oil may not have been the reason for the Iraq war, but it sure was a reason, and a major one.
The hunger for Ukraine’s resources
To feed the motor of continuous economic expansion, countries need ever more resources. Ukraine is one of the world’s most resource-rich countries. The Donbas and Mariupol regions alone contain in ‘commercially viable quantities’, a large majority of the most used minerals and metals in today’s economies.A part of the 3 to 11.5 trillion dollars worth of resources in Ukraine is now under Russian boots. This includes elements such as tantalum and niobium that are used for green(er) technologies as well as aviation, transportation and construction. As the amounts of elements like tantalum and niobium are state secrets, it is hard to estimate how much of it is now in Russian hands, but these materials are found in Donetsk and south of Zaporizhzhia, which are occupied by Putin’s invading army.”
“Don’t tell Knobbo, All-in or Bojo’s Brain, they’ll each have a stroke. They still think it’s 1916.”
Take a hike you dreary bore
I think I have encountered a more thoughtful and considered response from the most entrenched and dogmatic Jehovah Witness than I have from this joker, TS. There is no argument to sink your teeth into, just an endless stream of boring vitriol.
I liked the bit about “black and white” mind you. Because that exactly describes his simple-minded childish view of the world: Russia, Good; Ukraine, Bad. This is how capitalism perpetuates itself – by dividing the workers who are encouraged to imagine their enemies are fellow workers elsewhere, and then ruling over them.
I still don’t quite know what this individual is doing on this forum. He is, clearly, vehemently opposed to Marxian socialism even if he has little understanding of what that is about and no interest in finding out more. Does he imagine he is going to bring anyone here around to his disgusting sociopathic and hyper-nationalistic warmongering worldview? There is not a snowflake´s chance in hell of that happening. So why is he even bothered to engage with us? Very odd, that….
Lol. Thankfully most socialists in the world actually want to implement their ideas and understand seizing power us the only way to do so. Anyway dumb as, show me the law of the universe where socialists don’t “propose to be in charge”.
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You know very well what that means. Or perhaps you don’t, on second thoughts. It means forming a “socialist government”. For socialists, this is an oxymoron. Of course, we want to implement socialism, you fool. But that is not the same thing as wanting to form a government. Jeez. how long have you been on this website? Have you not read anything about what we stand for? The state is a class institution and it disappears along with class ownership in a socialist society
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“We already know because it’s already happened. You get fascist counter-revolution”
—————————-So then enlighten us. Where has a grassroots mass movement “happened” seeking to bring about a moneyless wageless classless and stateless alternative to capitalism – socialism – eh? Because without such evidence you are just pissing in the wind. Of course, we all know what you mean by “socialism”. You are talking about state-run capitalism or maybe also what the Nazis called “socialism”. I am not sure which is these models you prefer but its got nothing to do with what actual socialists advocate
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“No, what happens is your socialist experiment is attacked by those capitalist states. You either organise a military response to the capitalists’ agression or you drown in a river of blood
————————————————–Rubbish. Do you seriously imagine you can have “socialism in one country” or that spread of socialist ideas could be contained within the borders of one country? Socialism is global in the same way that capitalism is. Other capitalist states will afflicted with the very same problem that afflicts the capitalist state you currently live under. A growing socialist movement represents a growing opposition to nationalism and capitalism´s wars that will make it increasingly difficult for capitalist states to wage war anywhere.
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So if I want to use arms to defend my socialist society from capitalist aggression I’m a nationalist?
—————————————Jeezus . Unbelievable. You are a self-declared zealot for nationalism and now you are seemingly protesting against the idea of being labelled as such for some odd reason. You are certainly not a socialist and your notion of a socialist society is in fact a (state) capitalist society. Nationalism and the nation-state are the historical products of capitalism and will disappear with the establishment of a socialist society which can only be a global society. Socialists dont defend something calls a nation state
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“Lol. The Russian state is not fascist.”
———————————-If the Russian state is not fascist then neither is Ukraine given that both are pretty much the same in character. There are fascists fighting for Ukraine but there are also fascists fighting for Russia. Ergo this is not a way “against fascism”. Putin is just an opportunist who needs to drum up a pretext to wage a war and what better way to do that than present it as some kind of noble enterprise directed against the threat of fascism? Useful idiots like yourself uncritically regurgitate this bilge without question. This war is a war of rival capitalist interests and words like fascism are just ideologically-charged ways of inducing the populace into support their local capitalists. The Ukraine state does it too. It argues that Ukrainian workers need to support the resistance against the threat of Russian fascism. Many Ukrainians see Russia as a fascist state and I have been on several forums where such an opinion is widely held
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No, you are feebly trying to make a case Russia’s war is aggression. Most of the world disagrees with you.
——————-Socialists dont support either side in this capitalist war. It takes two to tango. Russia invaded Ukraine, in this case, not the other way round. That is aggression however you want to dress it up. But then Ukraine is not blameless either nor for that is NATO and the West.
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It defeated German fascism.
——————–Yes but it didn’t defeat or eliminate fascist ideology per se did it? That´s the whole point that you blissfully ignore. You claimed that fascism could be defeated by military means which is a load of bollocks and must be by your very own logic since according to you, Ukraine and NATOSTAN today are fascists. Once again – you cannot kill an idea by killing those who espouse it. Ideas spring from historical circumstances. Fascism is the expression of ultra-nationalism. If you want to kill off fascism choke it off by attacking the putrid ideology of nationalism that fascism feed off
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It’s succeeding spectacularly in Ukraine.
—————————–LOL LOL LOL. Even from the standpoint of your own dumb logic, this makes no sense. For it to make sense in your terms would require Russian imperialism to successfully conquer and annex the whole of Ukraine. That’s not gonna happen, sunshine. (How long has the fighting been going on in Bakhmut BTW?) In the meanwhile can you imagine the depth of hatred towards all things Russian that is building up in Ukraine? If anything Putin´s stupid blunder is feeding the growth of “fascism” not eliminating it. He is no better than the Western imperialists who helped to orchestrate the Maidan takeover
The sooner this stupid war ends the better
What’s your point? Cos not all Germans were Nazis what? They shouldn’t have been met militarily and defeated on the battlefield? You’d employ teenage urges to stop the Nazi death machine from rolling across the world? Thank the Gods that you fools weren’t in charge back in the day. You’d have counseled jumping into the sea rather than shooting at a Nazi “worker”
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The stupidity of this guy knows no limits…
Socialists don’t propose to be “in charge” anyway but assuming TS means by that a situation where we would be a truly mass movement – what would happen then? What would happen then is that capitalist states would find it virtually impossible to wage war anywhere. See, socialist ideas come as a package of ideas (and values). One of these ideas is our fervent opposition to the putrid and malevolent ideology of nationalism. The relationship between nationalist ideas and socialist ideas is an inverse one. One can only grow at the expense of the other. Fascism is only ultra-nationalism. It too will weaken and die along with ordinary nationalism as the workers’ movement grows
Apart from that, you don’t kill an idea by killing those who espouse it. Ideas arise from certain historical and material conditions. In TS´s muddled brain, the current war being waged by the far-right ultra-nationalist Putin regime is a war against “fascism”. He is feebly trying to justify the Putin regime’s pretext for invading Ukraine on the grounds that this is the only way you can defeat fascism.
But hold on – how come if fascism was defeated in WW2 that we are once again confronted with the spectre of fascism in the guise of the Ukraine regime not to mention NATO itself? So defeating the Nazis in WW2 did NOT destroy fascism at all, did it?
TS is effectively admitting that his whole strategy for defeating fascism – that is by “turning fascists into fertiliser” – is foredoomed to failure.
Little wonder nobody takes this idiot seriously here. His only value is to provide entertainment (and I must concede that he is indeed a most entertaining clown)
Once again for the benefit of our resident clown, TS, here´s where the capitalist authoritarian president of Russia comes from ideologically speaking
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/26/how-fascist-are-putins-views
“And the Russians are leading the charge against right-wing extremism yet again. Putting an end to another fascist death cult.”
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lol lol lol
The Putin regime is a prime example of Right-wing authoritarian capitalism. Its leadership draws its ideological inspiration from the scribblings of a bona fide “Christian fascist”. The Russian side (like the Ukrainian side) includes out-and-out fascists. Given the marked similarities between both regimes if Ukraine is fascist then so too is Russia.
Game set and match, clown….
“Blah, blah. I was using the term stormtrooper as in Star Wars. Dick.”
—————-No, you weren’t. You said and I quote “Lol. You’re saying the SS killed the Nazi stormtroopers? That’s whatever’s above God level stupid.” Yet again, you’ve been caught with your trousers down and exposed as an ignorant buffoon, feebly attempting to justify your vehemently anti-working class and fascistic pro-capitalist political outlook in the only way you know – by personal insult and not reasoned argument
TS: “Lol. You’re saying the SS killed the Nazi stormtroopers? That’s whatever’s above God level stupid. You get the world’s biggest participation trophy.”
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LOL yourself ….“RÖHM PURGE
The Röhm Purge was the murder of the leadership of the SA (Storm Troopers), the Nazi paramilitary formation led by Ernst Röhm. The murders took place between June 30 and July 2, 1934. The ruling elites and ultimately Hitler saw the SA as a threat to their hold on power. The purge demonstrated the Nazi regime’s willingness to go outside of the law to commit murder as an act of state for the perceived survival of the nation.Between June 30 and July 2, 1934, Nazi Party leadership purged the leadership of the Nazi paramilitary formation, the Sturmabteilung (Storm Troopers; SA). Nazi Party Leader and Reich Chancellor Adolf Hitler had ordered the purge. The Nazi leaders took advantage of the purge to kill other political enemies. Primarily, they targeted those on the German nationalist right. The purge is known as the “Night of the Long Knives” or “Operation Hummingbird.” These murders cemented an agreement between the Nazi Regime and the German army (Reichswehr). This enabled Hitler to proclaim himself Führer of National Socialist Germany and to claim absolute power.”
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/roehm-purge
“Lol. A Banderite fascist state commits a terrorist murder of a journalist and you blame the victim. Long and short of it.”
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Don’t be so bloody stupid TS. You’re a complete fantasist. When I have blamed the victim? I repeat what I said earlier in the perhaps forlorn hope that your tiny brain can comprehend it – I do not condone the use of violence even if you do – even to the extent of reveling in the idea of turning fellow workers into fertilizer.
As for your reference to the Banderite fascist state well, we’ve been here before – if that is an accurate description of the Ukrainian state then one can equally call the Russian regime a fascist regime given their remarkable similarity
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“Lol. You think fascist stormtroopers are just “workers”. Hahahahahahahahahahah. Dumb ass.”
——————-Again, what percentage of the Ukrainian army do you consider to be “fascist” compared to the Russian military or the Wagner Group? Why do you ALWAYS run away from answering this question?
Do you think the little kids or old folk blown up by Russian missiles are fascists too? And just to make it clear that I am being even-handed here I would address exactly the same point to the Ukrainian military and their morally repugnant bombing and killing of civilians in Donbas since 2014. War turns everyone involved in it into sociopathic monsters
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“The Transparency Index? Who funds that? A bunch of right wing billionaires? I piss on em. Lol”
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Yeah, you piss on anything and everything that inconveniently refutes your sick worldview. In fact, you seem chronically pissed by the looks of things. Your language reminds me of a 9-year-old sniffing glue or something.I do not know who exactly funds the Transparency Index. Maybe your own favourite rightwing billionaire, Vlad Putin, made a contribution at one time though I doubt it. Anyway, you might care to research for yourself if you are interested.
https://www.transparency.org/en/the-organisation/funding-and-financialsIncidentally, I’ve been to Russia and experienced corruption firsthand back in the 90s- a nice little scam operated by officials at Moscow airport. The bastards wanted me to hand over 80 dollars before I could enter the departure lounge. It was that or miss my flight back to the UK
The only one who is being “pathetic” here is your good self TS. Again and again and again. You are just a joke.
I have been pretty even-handed in condemning both the Ukrainian and Russian regimes. Both are disgusting far-right ultra-nationalist authoritarian regimes. I have also been pretty forthright in opposition to the war and to the use of indiscriminate violence for whatever cause.
I simply pointed out that being a journalist in both Russia and Ukraine is a risky business since these two countries top the league in Europe for journalists killed in the course of their work. That’s a fact. I also corrected the quotation that Lizzie chose to emphasize i.e. “America is nowadays clearly the world’s most dangerous continent for the media”. This is a misleading quote because people would normally associate the word “America” with the “United States” whereas the reference is obviously to the continent and to countries like Mexico.
And what about you? For you now to get on your high moral horse and complain about “fascist violence perpetrated against innocent civilians” makes me want to throw up. You are the one who supports a war that routinely kills innocent civilians every day. You are the one who expressed sociopathic fascist pleasure in turning fellow workers into “fertiliser”. How sick is that?
And you don’t even know how to read properly- no doubt a consequence of the red mist clouding your vision. Lizzie did not say anything about criminal gangs and corrupt business people murdering journalists in Russia. She explicitly said “If you care to re-read my post you will see that reference is made to the American continent as a whole” (I merely corrected the use of the term “America” which suggests the reference is to the United States which is wrong).
Russia has been called a “gangster state”, being, along with Ukraine, one of the most corrupt countries in the world according to the Transparency Index. So it is conceivable that some of the killings are related to criminal gangs. It is also conceivable that the state uses its contacts in the criminal underworld to order contract killings of its critics.
“America is nowadays clearly the world’s most dangerous continent for the media” (emphasis added)
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That’s true but I don’t think that refers to the “USA” but rather the “Americas” as a whole – particularly Mexico – and I suspect that is largely related to coverage of the drug cartels.
Russia and Ukraine with their appalling human rights record, top the list in Europe with the most journalists murdered, some very clearly for political reasons
“Whataboutism much? The Committee to Protect Journalists? Credibility- in the toilet. LOL”
______________________That doesn´t mean that the figures cited of journalists murdered in Russia is incorrect, does it now? There are plenty of other sources that come up with much the same figure.
Russia is a far-right authoritarian capitalist regime. So is Ukraine. Perhaps it’s not coincidental that these two repugnant regimes (one of which you bootlick for) are top of the list for the most dangerous countries in Europe to work in….
See this
“Ukraine is currently the most dangerous country in Europe for the media, after Russia itself, where 25 journalists have been killed over the past 20 years.
“Since (President) Vladimir Putin took over, Russia has seen systematic attacks on press freedom – including deadly ones,” the rights group said. “They include Anna Politkovskaya’s high-profile murder on 7 October 2006.” Politkovskaya was a fierce critic of Putin and had exposed high-level corruption in the country. She was shot four times in her apartment block after returning home from buying groceries.”
“Interesting take on the terrorist murder of a journalist.”
Yes indeed, Apparently its quite a dangerous profession to be in in Russia – being a journalist and writing critical stuff about the regime there…
