PartisanZ
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
What workers sell, and what capitalists normally pay the full value of, is their labour-power, which is capable of producing a greater value than its own. If capitalists paid “the full value of labour” they wouldn’t make any profits.
Above from a book review: https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1994/1990s/no-1077-may-1994/book-review-against-market-political-economy-market-s/
That applies regardless of whether the enterprise is owned by a collective, a cooperative, a corporation, a state or privately.
It would apply to your happy clappy ‘socialistic’ experiment as regular ‘unsocialistic’ capitalism out-competed it, minced it up, wolfed it down and spat it out, pointing at another ‘failure of socialism’.
______________________
“If money, according to Augier, [14] “comes into the world with a congenital blood-stain on one cheek,” capital comes dripping from head to foot, from every pore, with blood and dirt. [15] The Genesis of Industrial Capitalism.”
______________________
Sorry Mr. Matthew if my post seem to be Spam,
Well if not, then apologies. it looked like it was advertising a daft book.
for the case of being Hogwash that might be true, but it was just my two cents of the practicability of having a form of Socialism which can survive in capitalistic environment…,
Impossible.
and the definition of Socialism which I took (maybe a bit too loosely) is the one which means of production as well as the fruits of that production to be owned/benefit the community as a whole…
To be owned in common and controled democraticaly in a production for use, free access, society is the complete anti-thesis to production for a market.
They say a Rose by any other name, smells just as sweet…,
Capitalism comes with poverty relative or absolute and war by deed or proxy regardless of how it is dressed up , the same foul stench wil emanate from your anarcho-capitalist wet dream.
the point am trying to make we need a system by any name which is better and look after majority not minorities,
No we need a system in which social equality to the means and instruments for producing and distributing wealth prevails.
and that system needs to compete with capitalism not hoping capitalism dies for it to exist.
We are not wishing to compete with capitalism, this can only happen by driving down wage costs and increasing the rate of exploitation.
We are not hoping capitalism dies, we are advocating its extinction and the capture of its technological and informational infrastructures by the immense majority to apply a free access, production for use society.In my humble opinion such a system can exist, because if it will benefit majority, then the masses themselves will/can make it work. We need a system which is productive and efficient.
Your productive and efficient system arises from exploiting and self-exploiting the wealth producing working class, the source of all wealth is labour.
As for money / wages you might call it credits to get something… money makes efficient the exchange of needs and wants…, the system am advocating is the one which:-
People don’t Work to Earn, rather they Work to Produce; and They Earn to Consume
This is totally unnecessary to have a means of exchange when all is owned in common.
A system which guarantees people have skills to produce and ability to earn so they can consume, for the betterment of themselves and community.
It is a happy clappy utopia which ignores the costs of war, arising out of competition between rival capitalists in nation states, trading blocs, over markets, trade routes, raw materials and spheres of geopolitical advantage and poverty, which arises out of reproducing exploitation at the point of production to create surplus value.
That above is hogwash and probably spam.
Socialism/communism, it means the same in the classical Marxian, pre-Leninist sense, will be an advanced , post-capitalist society, run by us all, locally, regionally, globally, in administration over resources and not a government over people.
It will be a market -free, money-free, production for use (not for sale), free access (not rationed access) commonly owned,(not private, corporate or state owned) revolutionary permanent break with the present capitalist one.
It has never existed anywhere.
It is not a ‘reformist’ nor a ‘statist’ version of capitalism which retains wage slavery in any form.
It will be the mature, politically conscious task of the immense majority to make it happen and not the minority vanguardist led actions of pseudo-revolutionaries.
“The organising tenet will be from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs.”
Only a commonly owned production for use society of true social equals to the means of production and distribution can ever do this.
If there are wages and salaries, it is not socialism/communism.
State ownership is not socialism/communism.
Social programs are not socialism/communism.
Socialism/communism means democracy at all levels of society, including the workplace.
Socialism/communism means a wageless, moneyless society.
Socialism/communism means voluntary labour.
Socialism/communism means free access to the goods produced by society.____________________________
” The emancipation of the working classes must be conquered by the working classes themselves. We cannot, therefore, co-operate with people who openly state that the workers are too uneducated to emancipate themselves and must be freed from above by philanthropic big bourgeois and petty bourgeois.”
(1879 Marx and Engels )
A high profile scalp indeed.
LT “and more importantly holding power would be impossible without a temporary dictatorship of the proletariat.”
It was a, far from temporary, dictatorship over the proletariat.
Fascism. The term fascismo was coined by the Italian Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini and Hegelian philosopher Giovanni Gentile. It is derived from the Italian word fascio, which means ‘bundle’ or ‘union’. Fascism was an authoritarian, nationalistic and anti-socialist political ideology that preaches the need for a strong state ruled by a single political party led by a charismatic leader. Later the word was used in relation to a similar extreme nationalist movement in Germany even though this described itself as ‘national-socialist’ (Nazi) rather than fascist. Both these movements won control of political power more or less constitutionally, in Italy in 1922 and in Germany in 1933, and proceeded to establish a one-party dictatorship with mass organisations to win over the population and preaching that all members of the ‘nation’ had a common interest. Fascism/Nazism was implacably opposed to Marxism for its internationalism and its recognition of the class struggle within nations.
Reading
Roger Eatwell, Fascism: A History, 2003
Giovanni Gentile & Benito Mussolini, The Doctrine of Fascism, 1932
This link from the NYTimes is useful.
https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html
Run by Michael McDonald, an expert on early voting, the website has become a must-bookmark stop for everyone who obsesses about politics, offering frequently updated data on early voting returns across the country.
Their ‘What is socialism?‘ series, is still peddling Leftist two stagism, economic systems, etc versions of capitalism as ‘socialism’.
That’s good but the same material seems to be appearing on Spopen too. But I thought this was meant for internal discussions amongst members of the various WSM parties not for external propaganda purposes.
I only just saw this. I did that as a service for companion party members, who only saw spopen emails. It seems I am overzealous and in error, so I’ve deleted the feed.
An interesting example of problem solving during the corona-virus from fellow workers dealing with a specialised medical job.
K Street is a major thoroughfare in the United States capital of Washington, D.C. known as a center for numerous lobbyists and advocacy groups. In political discourse, “K Street” has become a metonym for Washington’s lobbying industry since many lobbying firms were traditionally located on the section in Northwest Washington which passes from Georgetown through a portion of downtown D.C.Since the late 1980s, however, many of the largest lobbying firms have moved out; as of 2012, only one of the top-20 lobbying firms has a K Street address.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Street_%28Washington,_D.C.%29
What was your reply?
I don’t have a copy I usually make one before posting. It was an extemporaneous response and my short term memory recall is bad. It had the usual point of those ‘inevitable twin concomitants’ of poverty and war being ineradicable etc et al.
All three protagonists were in breach of the Forum guidelines at some point. Either off topic, or in the case of two of them, referring back to previous posts, encounters and events, some not even on this Forum and in any case not permitted, as the Guidelines state,
7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages.
https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum-rules-and-guidelines/
