Ozymandias
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When will Sunday’s debate be available to watch online? I can’t see any reference to it on the UK Zeitgeist site. In the past couple of years I have noticed a distinct falling off in TZM activity. I don’t think they are going anywhere. Peter Joseph’s decision to get rid of the global forum (just one example of how undemocratic they are) is central to this. Also the last few times I’ve logged onto the TZM teamspeak site there is nobody there. When I first heard of TZM (by way of SOYMB) I put up a rather hard line post on the Zeitgeist website which led me into a mini online debate with PJ himself. My position towards TZM softened somewhat after this especially after watching “Zeitgeist: Moving Forward” which (except for the last 10 minutes) I thought was mostly excellent. I find that I oscillate between hope and enthusiasm that TZM even exists and despair that they can be so short sighted…especially about concepts of class and history which they ignore completely. I think at the end of the day despite how professional their message is presented, their position is totally half baked. Their story contains gigantic plot holes which only a Socialist can see through. I think in the past I had naively hoped that in some way both TZM and WSM could collaborate in some way. However as long as the Zeitgeister’s believe that Capitalism will eventually collapse and that the next society can be arrived at gradually and with no recourse to political or democratic action then they are about as relevant as the SWP or any other anarchist group. After I rushed into a branch meeting in Glasgow four years ago like a loon to tell the members about this new miracle called Zeitgeist, Vic Vanni prophesised that they could end up doing more harm than good in the end. Maybe he was right.
I was meant to be coming down this morning but I won’t be able to attend tomorrow’s event now. I had booked an early flght for 7am leaving from Glasgow but was still wide awake by 3am and just could not sleep. The thought of getting up at 5am to get the bus to the airport, fly down, get the train from Luton into London, get a tube from London up to North Finchley then get the Bus from there to my mates house was too much for me. The flight only cost me £60 return so haven’t lost that much. Would have loved to have been there but it can’t be helped now!. Cheers Ray
Hello Ed, It just shows you how worried the Capitalist class are by attempting to strangle the release of this documentary, especially in the run up to the latest pet project they are hoping to bamboozle us all with…the fuckin olympics. Ed I agree with you in regard to your sympathy with the rioters. Weren’t these kids only taking back what all of us have produced colectively anyway, even if their actions were subliminally enacted through desperation and blind rage? I wonder how many party members actually went to see Plan B’s excellent movie “ILL Manor’s”? Probably hardly any. I went to see it a few weeks ago and thought it was excellent. I also enjoyed (is that the right word?) the Plan B video you put up. Mate at the end of the day when conditions become so dire and the message of World Socialism/RBE really starts to get out there it is these young people who could be the greatest Socialists. They have the most to gain. I know it sounds ridiculous now to think of all the unemployed chavs, neds (what they are called up here in Glasgow), scallies, pikeys, junkies, alkies, prostitutes, dealers, muggers, house thieves, pick pockets, lager louts, football hooligans, orangemen, EDL supporters and every other lumpen prole all joining in…but they will. They will have no choice. Ok they might be the last section of the class to wake up but when they do we will know about it. At the end of 1984 Orwell wrote that the only hope left was with the proles. It might be a caricature but already the more advanced youth in the thinking section of the working class (i.e the so called middle class?) are leading the way down the dark alley of history armed only with a torch. They are at the heart of occupy and TZM etc (just take a look at the type of folk who are going to be at the Zeitgeist event this coming weekend) and I’m glad they are. All of this will lead to a crescendo…when the defeaning roar will envelop the earth I don’t know, but I see all the jigsaw pieces coming into place. Slowly the stage is being set…for global armaggedon or earthly paradise. I just hope the party will not see the TZM event on Sunday as another opportunity to get bogged down in chauvinism (as unfortunately happened at Summer School with the guy from occupy). If the party fucks this up with TZM then it will be their own fault. The WSM should be engaging with TZM at every opportunity. They can only learn and feed off each other. Cheers Ray
This is why I am flying down to London to attend the TZM/WSM day school on the 22nd. I think it’s fantastic this is happening. Perhaps the WSM should compare notes with Zeitgeist specifically around such topics as videos and other technical stuff. I think the party could learn from TZM (although I’m not talking about theory of course) whilst the Zeitgeisters could learn a vast galaxy from the WSM.
I think this is fantastic. I am trying to book cheap flights so I can fly down from Glasgow to attend this event. Am really looking fwd to it. This kind of interaction should be going on more often with TZM. I think both orhanisations can learn from each other. I hope this same flyer will be posted on http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com Cheers Ray
Really excellent viewing. The SPGB has such a wealth of reason. I think this form of plain speaking interview type scenario would work just as well as documentaries if the SPGB were to produce more movies. Bring it on!
Well I guess it’s not prominent but go to http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com and click on the audio/video tab…
