[moderator1]

LBird wrote:

Socialism and Change, hmmm.You stick to your 'Real World', robbo, where the very notion of 'change' is anathema.The 'Real World' where 'Reasonable People' accept the 'Facts Of Life'…I want to discuss with socialists, Marxists, democrats, who start from the revolutionary presumption that this present 'Real World' is not 'real-for-us', where 'Reasonable People' are regarded as murderous dictators, and the 'Facts Of Life' are seen as 'Social Oppression', which we can change.Socialism and Change? You want Individualism and The Status Quo, robbo, and you're going to shit yourself when faced with democratic decision-making, which contradicts your bourgeois, expert-loving, elitist worship.Why can't you envisage a society in which scientists work to democratically-chosen social concepts, within scientific institutions which are run on democratic principles, and where the results of social research are presented in a socially-acceptable language, to a democratic society, for them to decide whether the research results are 'true-for-them'?Who are these 'experts', who have a non-political method, in a non-political science, who don't have to present their findings to a well-educated, well-organised, conscious society?Who determines 'dogma', 'rigidities', and 'eternal'? Apparently, for you, robbo, the whole of humanity, left to their own political devices, will become rigidly dogmatic, for eternity, if you and your elite don't have the power to override humanity!You really think that most people are stupid naturally, don't you, robbo? You can't conceive of a revolutionary social process, whereby the vast majority of humans self-educate themselves, and engage in a revolution which will overthrow your 'Real World', and actively participate in all human research. 'Ignorance' is a social product, not a 'Human Condition', nor part of 'Human Nature'.According to you, anyone who argues these democratic socialist principles, is saying that everyone in socialism will carry out brain surgery on each other! What political ideology has such contempt for 'the masses', and their 'endless stupidity'?You're a Tory, through and through, robbo, and all your bleating is the resistance of 'common sense' to 'revolutionary activity'. And you're, ironically enough, the one who's 'ignorant' of the basics of democratic socialism.

1st warning: 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages.

[moderator1]

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

Marcos wrote:

Alan Kerr wrote:

@Steve-San FranciscoWho or what is shifting total sunlight around in a way that keeps trees alive?“A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"(Stephen Hawking’s book A Brief History of Time)At least the little old lady did give an answer.If not the market then who or what is shifting total labour around in a way that keeps us alive?

We are shifting from social sciences into Botany, Agronomy,  and Zoology

message to Moderator 1can you explain how the original post relates to the title of this discussion, marx and Automation. As pointed out by Marcos, the posting had nothing to do with the thread title, yet no action was takenagainst the posters, yet later posts wchich diverge ended up with bans from the forum. I for one would like some degree of consistancy in the moderation of this forum!!!

1st warning: : 2. The forums proper are intended for public discussion. Personal messages between participants should be sent via private message or by e-mail.

[moderator1]

Reminder: 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).

[moderator1]

Reminder: 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).

[moderator1]

Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:

 Moderator.  you have an almost impossible job and my sympathy on this issue.  i think that myself and many others may simply be unnaware of your problem or the solution you worked out that requires contributors to activily work for the benefit of others convenience by manually editing their long quotes.  One failure of the automation is that this isn't communicating it's limitations clearly to the posters/contributors who simply need this explanation provided to them.  I personally didn't understand or realize that you expected or require users to cut their own quotes down or that doing so would be benefiical.  I had the pre-conception and believed as most people that truncating the quote might be viewed negatively as a form of de-contextualizing and taking out of context and arrouse suspicion.  in most automation systems I am familiar and practiced with, there is no need for manually editing quotes and the automation solutions such as facebook will automatically move most of the words out of sight and replace them with a link that reads "more".  Clicking on the link expands the longer text for reading in it's entirety.  

Now you are aware of the problem does this mean I can look forward to much shorter posts from yourself?

[moderator1]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

I tell you what made that thread incredibly difficult to read was not off-topic remarks but the unnecessary repetition of previous posts and the moderator was as guilty as anybody else.Quoting previous messages is necessary but not verbatim. Lets excise superfluous extracts. 

I don't have the remit to cut posts I can only remind users of unnecessary repetition and if that don't work start issuing warnings.  Its down to users to cut their posts which contain a full and rather long quote.  

[moderator1]

twc wrote:

Suspension of Marcos:Re: http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/marx-and-automation?page=28#comment-43036 …

moderator1 wrote:

First warning: 1.  The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.2nd warning: 15.  Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.3rd and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.This warning will stay in place for the next 30 days.  I this [sic] breaches the rules within this period he'll be immediately suspended.3rd [sic] and final warning: 15.  Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.

This has been tactlessly handled.The author of the topic initiated the alleged “derail” — as in, MBellamare:“I see the advent of return to the dark ages… I call this the rise of  micro-fascism…”Marcos can’t possibly “derail” a thread by responding to a claim made by the original author.Moderators might reconsider turning first warnings into recommendations, e.g.,“Your post on XXX is off-topic.  To continue posting on XXX, please do so in a more-appropriate thread or start a new thread on XXX”.Most self-respecting writers would be tempted to defend themselves, as Marcos did, in the open, and to resist the ignominy of having to defend themselves in private against unexpected charges laid against themselves in public!Marcos has “derailed” nothing.  He believes himself innocent of implied intent.  As a result he has compounded his “offence” by openly defending his integrity.Marcos has taken his stance in the very same public arena in which his integrity was unfathomably impugned — in the open forum.  Why should he grovel to private appeal and await private judgement?Serial derailment is one thing, but unintended derailment is quite another.Moderation is difficult, but something is wrong with its current implementation.

If anybody was Tactless it was Marcos by responding to an Off-topic.  He then compounded the breach with further breaches.  This is not the first time he's done this.

[moderator1]

Reminder: 2. The forums proper are intended for public discussion. Personal messages between participants should be sent via private message or by e-mail.

[moderator1]

Marcos wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Marcos wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Marcos wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Marcos wrote:

   WHAT WAS FASCISM?What was Fascism? Fascism was basically an extreme form adopted by Nationalism in Italy and Germany, for specific reasons, given the historical particularity of those capitalist states, which occurred during the period of the twentieth century between two world wars. Fascism originated in Italy in 19119 when Mussolini established the "fascisti di combatitimento", so named in relation to the military units of the Roman Empire. Later the word was used to something similar to the extreme nationalist movement in Germany, although they described themselves as socialist-nationalists (Nazis) instead of Fascists.  Both movements gained control of political power and not less constitutional, in Italy in 1922 and in Germany in 1933, and proceeded to establish the dictatorship of the single party with mass organizations to unite the population and preach that all members of a nation have common interests. Fascism / Nazism was relentlessly opposed by Nazism because of the latter advocates internationalism and advocates class struggle within nations. Analyzing this new phenomenon, which represents comparative political retrogression as Marx and the Marxists until the First World War World War II had seen the developments of things (political democracy after socialism) was a challenge for those who called themselves as Marxists. As they faced this challenge is how the Renton book describes this situation. Well written and easy to understand, but suffers from the shortcomings of its author because it is a member of the World Socialist Party (of Trotskyist origin), who sees Trotsky as a brilliant political thinker. But Trotsky was disqualified as a useful character to contribute to the debate on Fascism, although he was not racist, he favored the dictatorship of the single party The SWP (World Socialist Party, not the WSM) campaigns against the fascist groups that exist today as one of their priorities, but because Fascism is an extreme form of the development of nationalism they should also advocate a campaign against nationalism. But they do not do this, they support the so-called right of nations for self-determination, a doctrine which accepts the myth of nations, which provides ideological ammunitions to justify ethnic cleansing of members of other nations living in the territory of a nation Analysis of the book of  Renton madeFor the Socialist Party of Great Britain. We have an article written in 3 parts which show the emerge, and the development of Nazism and Fascism

First warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

Well, there is a post indicationg that we are in the verge of fascism/nazism and darki age, and even Robbo wrote saying that capitalism can not establish a neo-feudalo society. This post is an explanation of what Fascism/Nazism really and the actual situation around the world does not qualify to be called Fasscism or Nazism. The left wingers and the Stalinists the see fascists and nazists all over the world, or anybody that was opposed to the Soviet coup, even more, the goverment of Trump can not be called a Fascists/Nazis regimes, In different countries we can neo-Nazis or neo-Fascists, but they do not have the same economical power and support like the Nazis had in Germany

2nd warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.

Moderator I do not like secrecy, this is not a secret society. When I want to say something I would say it in front of a  shooting squad, I have confronted dictators and the millitary police. There are a bunch of trolls in this  froum posting ideas which has nothing to do with the forum, and they are still walking like Johnny Walker. If you want  , you can remove my name from the forum,  and I would not  care your decision. I would move  my microphone to another place. 

3rd and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.This warning will stay in place for the next 30 days.  I this breaches the rules within this period he'll be immediately suspended.

Go ahead and do it. I do not care, I am not going to send any personal message, and I am not going to make any appeal either, this party  is supposely to be open . That is the reason why the Stalinists from  the World Socialist Party of US threw me out from their personal private forum,acting like cowards,  because they want to keep it  as a secret society. I just told tjhem the true in front of their faces:. That party is dead, it does not exist as a political organization,  they are just seating in their rocking chairs while the world is falling apart,  and they are a bunch of nationalists and xenophobics. A party control by one person, it is like a central committee. I would say the same thing in this forum, I do not believe  in secrecy

Immediate suspension: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.

[moderator1]

Marcos wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Marcos wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Marcos wrote:

   WHAT WAS FASCISM?What was Fascism? Fascism was basically an extreme form adopted by Nationalism in Italy and Germany, for specific reasons, given the historical particularity of those capitalist states, which occurred during the period of the twentieth century between two world wars. Fascism originated in Italy in 19119 when Mussolini established the "fascisti di combatitimento", so named in relation to the military units of the Roman Empire. Later the word was used to something similar to the extreme nationalist movement in Germany, although they described themselves as socialist-nationalists (Nazis) instead of Fascists.  Both movements gained control of political power and not less constitutional, in Italy in 1922 and in Germany in 1933, and proceeded to establish the dictatorship of the single party with mass organizations to unite the population and preach that all members of a nation have common interests. Fascism / Nazism was relentlessly opposed by Nazism because of the latter advocates internationalism and advocates class struggle within nations. Analyzing this new phenomenon, which represents comparative political retrogression as Marx and the Marxists until the First World War World War II had seen the developments of things (political democracy after socialism) was a challenge for those who called themselves as Marxists. As they faced this challenge is how the Renton book describes this situation. Well written and easy to understand, but suffers from the shortcomings of its author because it is a member of the World Socialist Party (of Trotskyist origin), who sees Trotsky as a brilliant political thinker. But Trotsky was disqualified as a useful character to contribute to the debate on Fascism, although he was not racist, he favored the dictatorship of the single party The SWP (World Socialist Party, not the WSM) campaigns against the fascist groups that exist today as one of their priorities, but because Fascism is an extreme form of the development of nationalism they should also advocate a campaign against nationalism. But they do not do this, they support the so-called right of nations for self-determination, a doctrine which accepts the myth of nations, which provides ideological ammunitions to justify ethnic cleansing of members of other nations living in the territory of a nation Analysis of the book of  Renton madeFor the Socialist Party of Great Britain. We have an article written in 3 parts which show the emerge, and the development of Nazism and Fascism

First warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

Well, there is a post indicationg that we are in the verge of fascism/nazism and darki age, and even Robbo wrote saying that capitalism can not establish a neo-feudalo society. This post is an explanation of what Fascism/Nazism really and the actual situation around the world does not qualify to be called Fasscism or Nazism. The left wingers and the Stalinists the see fascists and nazists all over the world, or anybody that was opposed to the Soviet coup, even more, the goverment of Trump can not be called a Fascists/Nazis regimes, In different countries we can neo-Nazis or neo-Fascists, but they do not have the same economical power and support like the Nazis had in Germany

2nd warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.

Moderator I do not like secrecy, this is not a secret society. When I want to say something I would say it in front of a  shooting squad, I have confronted dictators and the millitary police. There are a bunch of trolls in this  froum posting ideas which has nothing to do with the forum, and they are still walking like Johnny Walker. If you want  , you can remove my name from the forum,  and I would not  care your decision. I would move  my microphone to another place. 

3rd and final warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.This warning will stay in place for the next 30 days.  I this breaches the rules within this period he'll be immediately suspended.

[moderator1]

Marcos wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Marcos wrote:

   WHAT WAS FASCISM?What was Fascism? Fascism was basically an extreme form adopted by Nationalism in Italy and Germany, for specific reasons, given the historical particularity of those capitalist states, which occurred during the period of the twentieth century between two world wars. Fascism originated in Italy in 19119 when Mussolini established the "fascisti di combatitimento", so named in relation to the military units of the Roman Empire. Later the word was used to something similar to the extreme nationalist movement in Germany, although they described themselves as socialist-nationalists (Nazis) instead of Fascists.  Both movements gained control of political power and not less constitutional, in Italy in 1922 and in Germany in 1933, and proceeded to establish the dictatorship of the single party with mass organizations to unite the population and preach that all members of a nation have common interests. Fascism / Nazism was relentlessly opposed by Nazism because of the latter advocates internationalism and advocates class struggle within nations. Analyzing this new phenomenon, which represents comparative political retrogression as Marx and the Marxists until the First World War World War II had seen the developments of things (political democracy after socialism) was a challenge for those who called themselves as Marxists. As they faced this challenge is how the Renton book describes this situation. Well written and easy to understand, but suffers from the shortcomings of its author because it is a member of the World Socialist Party (of Trotskyist origin), who sees Trotsky as a brilliant political thinker. But Trotsky was disqualified as a useful character to contribute to the debate on Fascism, although he was not racist, he favored the dictatorship of the single party The SWP (World Socialist Party, not the WSM) campaigns against the fascist groups that exist today as one of their priorities, but because Fascism is an extreme form of the development of nationalism they should also advocate a campaign against nationalism. But they do not do this, they support the so-called right of nations for self-determination, a doctrine which accepts the myth of nations, which provides ideological ammunitions to justify ethnic cleansing of members of other nations living in the territory of a nation Analysis of the book of  Renton madeFor the Socialist Party of Great Britain. We have an article written in 3 parts which show the emerge, and the development of Nazism and Fascism

First warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

Well, there is a post indicationg that we are in the verge of fascism/nazism and darki age, and even Robbo wrote saying that capitalism can not establish a neo-feudalo society. This post is an explanation of what Fascism/Nazism really and the actual situation around the world does not qualify to be called Fasscism or Nazism. The left wingers and the Stalinists the see fascists and nazists all over the world, or anybody that was opposed to the Soviet coup, even more, the goverment of Trump can not be called a Fascists/Nazis regimes, In different countries we can neo-Nazis or neo-Fascists, but they do not have the same economical power and support like the Nazis had in Germany

2nd warning: 15. Queries or appeals relating to particular moderation decisions should be sent directly to the moderators by private message. Do not post such messages to the forum. You must continue to abide by the moderators’ decisions pending the outcome of your appeal.

[moderator1]

Marcos wrote:

   WHAT WAS FASCISM?What was Fascism? Fascism was basically an extreme form adopted by Nationalism in Italy and Germany, for specific reasons, given the historical particularity of those capitalist states, which occurred during the period of the twentieth century between two world wars. Fascism originated in Italy in 19119 when Mussolini established the "fascisti di combatitimento", so named in relation to the military units of the Roman Empire. Later the word was used to something similar to the extreme nationalist movement in Germany, although they described themselves as socialist-nationalists (Nazis) instead of Fascists.  Both movements gained control of political power and not less constitutional, in Italy in 1922 and in Germany in 1933, and proceeded to establish the dictatorship of the single party with mass organizations to unite the population and preach that all members of a nation have common interests. Fascism / Nazism was relentlessly opposed by Nazism because of the latter advocates internationalism and advocates class struggle within nations. Analyzing this new phenomenon, which represents comparative political retrogression as Marx and the Marxists until the First World War World War II had seen the developments of things (political democracy after socialism) was a challenge for those who called themselves as Marxists. As they faced this challenge is how the Renton book describes this situation. Well written and easy to understand, but suffers from the shortcomings of its author because it is a member of the World Socialist Party (of Trotskyist origin), who sees Trotsky as a brilliant political thinker. But Trotsky was disqualified as a useful character to contribute to the debate on Fascism, although he was not racist, he favored the dictatorship of the single party The SWP (World Socialist Party, not the WSM) campaigns against the fascist groups that exist today as one of their priorities, but because Fascism is an extreme form of the development of nationalism they should also advocate a campaign against nationalism. But they do not do this, they support the so-called right of nations for self-determination, a doctrine which accepts the myth of nations, which provides ideological ammunitions to justify ethnic cleansing of members of other nations living in the territory of a nation Analysis of the book of  Renton madeFor the Socialist Party of Great Britain. We have an article written in 3 parts which show the emerge, and the development of Nazism and Fascism

First warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

[moderator1]

Reminder: 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’).

[moderator1]

Excellent.  Will share on Quora.

[moderator1]

Reminder: 6. Do not make repeated postings of the same or similar messages to the same thread, or to multiple threads or forums (‘cross-posting’). Do not make multiple postings within a thread that could be consolidated into a single post (‘serial posting’). Do not post an excessive number of threads, posts, or private messages within a limited period of time (‘flooding’)

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