Mike McDade
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Ed,1) I am pretty sure that I have not withdrawn my application. I was under the impression that the form had been rejected and that I needed to re-apply;2) Excerpt from email received from branch 13MAR14: "At the branch meeting on Tuesday, I read and summarised the significant parts of the correspondence between you and the Applications Committee and that between you and me. The Branch then spent some time discussing the issues involved. The Branch was pleased that you were going to stay in touch while you work on your position with regard to agnosticism versus atheism. You are welcome to attend our future meetings. However, the prevailing view was that we couldn't take your application any further in your absence and that, should you wish to join the Party, we will need to set aside some time to interview you during a branch meeting."
) Excerpt from meeting minutes received 14MAR14: "1.2 Mike McDade's membership application was discussed as well as the reasons for it being deferred by the EC (i.e. the way he answered the attitude to religion question). In an email exchange with Chris, Mike had stated that, at present, he was an agnostic rather than an atheist but that he was examining the issue and that, in the meantime he would stay in touch with the Party. It was decided to tell Mike he was welcome to attend our meetings. Should he wish to talk through his membership application, we would be happy to do so when he is ready to re-apply.";4) Regretfully, I have not been able to attend April's or May's meetings. I do, however, intend to be there in June if I arrive back from America in time. I have no intention of withdrawing an application which I have made to become a member of the Socialist Party of Great Britain. I am anti-capitalist, pro-socilaist and see no other organisation which reflects the cause for true socialism. There is, in my mind, nowehere else to turn. I could do nothing, I suppose, but I have never been able to do nothing!Thanks for your other comments, which I shall reply to when I have given them the attention they deserve.In my second paragraph I did, of course, mean:From each according to their ability to each according to their need.
I also (still) regret that my membership form was rejected.Whether we walk this earth as a result of evolution or creation, the world and its resources should not be owned – or "ringefenced" as I like to call it – by a minority and manipulated largely for its own profit. The world is for everybody and its means of production and inherent wealth should be employed to satisfy the needs of everyone, by everyone. From each according to their need to each according to their ability.Did we evolve, or were we created? I believe a significant amount of people are still pondering that – myself included – simply because, for whatever reason, they have not devoted enought time and energy to reach an informed decision. Also, at either side of this argument, there are those who stand firm, many because they have arrived at an informed decision after much deliberation, many because they are completely blinkered and have taken their stand "off the peg", as it were.I believe that the classic monotheistic religions – Judaism, Christianity and Islam – are all based on lies, and have been designed to subjugate the masses in order to facilitate their control by a megalomanical minority, by exploiting their ignorance and their perceived "spiritual need." Other religions, I know very little about.I do not believe that there is an all powerful god/set of gods who are capable of intervening on behalf of man, to alleviate suffering. If there is/are, evidence to support this idea is non-existent. Humankind is capable of intervening collectively to take control of how things are done and how the earth's wealth is distributed.Everybody needs to be afforded the opportunity to arrive at a conclusion regarding the above themselves, practicing whatever religion they wish whilst doing so; it is a private matter. It is not the business of anyone to enforce OR prohibit this.At this stage, I am still of the opinion that atheism should not be a pre-requisite for membership. I suspect that this stumbling block may be holding a significant amount of people back from becoming members. I may be wrong but I reckon that, in the less educated minds of many, this stance may "tag" true socialism to the hardline stance that the former Soviet Union took against religious freedom. That would be a tragedy.This is the only matter which I and the SPGB have a disagreement.
Vin Maratty wrote:Mike Do you think that humankind has control over its own destiny or do you believe there is a creator that has the power to intervene?Vin, I do not know.
That is most excellent, Master Smeet. Although I do not fully understnad the import of the words, they have certainly caught my attention! I need to read the publication quoted (again) to see if it will sink in this time.
My predicament is similar to the comment Northern Light made at the top of this thread 18 months ago. I simply have not been ablt to read the whole thread.I would agree that I am agnostic and that my view is a scientific position; did we evolve from matter (and from monkeys), or were we created? Perhaps I was not so clear in my application or subsequent explanations to the EC. I am also unlikely to suddenly have conviction either way in the near future.As to whether the SPGB accept agnostics? That is for the SPGB to decide. However, it would be unacceptable to me to simply state that I am atheist without conviction in order to 'tick a box'.
“So, Mike, are we to suppose that you have a wealth of knowledge for the argument of creation?”
gnome, this is a great question. I would answer no. However, a large part of my life was taken up with study of the Bible in the past, therefore viewing the wonder of the world up until now has always been coloured by my past acceptance of what it taught. I am struggling to let go of the possibility of the existence of a creator.
I acknowledge that a better understanding of materialism will help. Coming across the idea of socialism has certainly helped! I guess I am just concerned that I am not well enough informed to be counted among the members..
Yes, very interesting, thanks. But I guess that the most immediate question, which I reiterate, is:I simply do not have a wealth of knowledge for the argument of evolution. Is my present point of view really not in line with what is need to join the SPGB? Because if it isn't, I may have made a mistake.
I notice that this thread has been asleep a while, but I need to resurrect it to get some answers and guidance, please.
I have recently submitted my membership form to join SPGB and have attended a local branch. As far as I can tell my membership has been accepted, after I clarified a matter concerning people’s freedom of religion and spirituality being a personal matter. However, I am a little concerned that I may have missed something.
At this stage in my understanding (largely due to upbringing and life course), I have not been able to completely discount the claim that we were created. This may well be as a result of the gap in my knowledge, and I am working on it (!) having availed myself of all the information I can get my hands on. I simply do not have a wealth of knowledge for the argument of evolution.
Is my present point of view really not in line with what is need to join the SPGB? Because if it isn’t, I may have made a mistake.
