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AlJo asks:
And my problem is that I don’t understand what is now become hysteria about it from the normally conservative scientific community and governments who primary care is usually solely about the health of their economy than with the health of their citizens. What is the threat that has got the callous capitalist class so concerned, very much more so than ever before?
Perhaps yesterday’s steepest one day drop in the stock market since 1987 might be a good reason why governments are making a fuss about the Corona. Focusing on disease, even on the perceived deficiencies of the response, deflects attention from economic problems. Health of the economy comes first.
Well, I’ve certainly stirred something up here haven’t I? Hardly surprising, you genuinely don’t like the idea of socialist government but that’s what the method entails. Denials are always the worst.
“In depth analysis”: No. Sorry. You have to do this yourself. I’m not doing it for you. Take the Party case and apply it.
“Your group does this.” Well, yes it does doesn’t it? As a “put up with it” it beats by miles the dreadful stuff I had to put up with in the SPGB.
“Rules. Schmules. They don’t apply to us.” This is very much the Party ethos in a nutshell. It is unique. Why? Because it says it is. Nope.
Like I say, you really haven’t thought this all through. Yes, I’ve read all the wretched pamphlets and come up with a more in depth analysis than you have. Delegation, for instance, is not how parliament works. If you are not interested in playing bourgeois games, do not start playing them.
Which is a long way from the question of socialist government. Some of you blokes are in such denial. You use the system, you have to follow its rules. This inevitably involves forming a socialist government, with a socialist prime minister and a socialist cabinet. You like? No. Too damn bad. Freddy knew a fing or two.
“Not on our wavelength at all.” Lumme lawks! In fact, the trouble the femmos have recently caused in the SPGB is exactly on the wavelength of the radical liberals masquerading as anarchists. Except about 20 years postdated. They’re the conservative wing of identity politics now. These days it’s all about transgender rights (no transgenders allowed to actually speak though just in case they say the wrong thing) and pretending prostitutes are the Grand Army of Sexual Liberation.
I note that you have carefully placated your feminist wing with a committee. An excellent strategy involving long grass and a foot moving forward (to use the current vernacular). Safe spaces are a good policy too. Once the ladies are out of the room, the blokes can swear and fart. Trouble with you goys is that some of your women will want to come into the men’s area just to be difficult.
something something patriarchy something
Just a random geezer. That’s disappointing. Now saved for all time (or until the collapse of civilisation – about seven years I reckon) as “Socialist Standard seller”.
I am an anarchist. I am an antichrist.
Anyway.
The Plan is that the SPGB on behalf of the working class takes control of state forces via the democratic process. I am merely being realistic in envisaging the likely scenario, given historical precedents. Y’see, I don’t think you’ve thought this all through.
Popular consciousness for sure, but it depends on what sort of democracy you’re talking about doesn’t it? I’m afraid I have no trust in existing representative democracy.
Makhno the monster? Durutti the dictator? Mmm…
Of course we’re talking about the transitional period (ho ho ho). On the one hand neutralisation of the armed forces. Fair enough. Except I don’t believe it. On the other using against pro-capitalists. Or whoever else is giving you gyp. Much more likely. I mean you don’t go to all that trouble to take over the power of the state (including its tanks), just to piss it away.
Jings! Did no bugger larf at my pink tank? You’re as humourless as the idpol anarchists.
What sort of anarchist are you? I thought they believed in a violent insurrection to smash the state but how can you do this if you have a conscientious objection to tanks and guns and armoured cars?
Or are you a namby pamby Tolstoy pacifist anarchist who thinks that the capitalist class will just give up their power and property if you disobediently sit in the middle of some road bridge?
Makes more sense to take the control of the means of political coercion out of their hands, so they can’t use it against us and that we can use it against them if they are so stupid as to attempt to resist the democratically expressed will of the majority to establish socialism.
I’ve got no particular objection to tanks. Indeed, Facebook seems to think I love them since I get ads for tank related stuff all the time. I’m not as bad as my son though, who can actually tell the difference between a Mark I and a Mark IV. That is very tankified.
Tanks (and other means of state power) should, naturally be taken out of “their” hands. However, I would suggest that “our” hands, in the sense of a socialist government (sic), would be just as bad.
Perhaps the solution lies in workers’ control. For us tank fans, this would have the advantage of increasing the variety of armament, colour schemes, etc. All tanks should be like Stompie, the Old Kent Road T-34:
Yes. Absolutely. Not that bad. Got some good bits what you can nick (permeate people not parties). That’s Mengels. What more can you reasonably expect? And, yes, administration and government are pretty much the same. If you wish to use the powers of the state through the electoral system, what has to be done is what has to be done. Socialist government. I think it’s a bad idea. But then I’m an ex- ain’t I.
“Every technological development” should be neither welcomed nor condemned. Did the Socialist Standard enthuse about the coming of the telephone? Or radio? Or the car? Of course not. They had a bit more sense. Clearly you have swallowed Star Trek whole. Partially Automated Reasonably Sufficient Socialism is quite adequate, thank you very much.
Oi loikes a noice strawman me. Fuck sake, anyone would think I was an anprim wandered in astray. Still, this sort of defensive overreaction makes me think I’ve touched a raw nerve. I think you’re all a bit suspicious of the advantages of tech really. “tool” pretty much sums it up. Within its historic setting, whether it’s smartphones or smoke signals is irrelevant. The message, or rather the method, is the thing. And to return to the goddamn point (such sidestepping!). The message and methods of the Shitegeistery Penis Project is totally unacceptable. What the hell are you doing toadying up to these elitists? Fuck ’em. And the shitty Labour Party.
However, as we slowly sink under the rising floodwaters, we will be able to take comfort in playing kiddie games on our stupidphones.
