JClark96
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Do you pick further preferences in the EU election? I can’t remember. Are there any elections where you have to pick other preferences, or is it always optional?
Where a first preference vote has been cast we convinced a voter that we are the party most representing their interests? Their other preferences would be recorded in second or even third seperate ballot? Of course if a majority was achieved these may not even be counted? And of course if they only select one preference, which is ideal I suppose.
I’m not sure on the intricacies of all of these elections but some may well fill in the other boxes just because they can. I don’t think it should detract too much, voting for us as a first preference would show class consciousness in my eyes.
I have heard the South East may be contested, are there any other branches considering contesting? Or will this all be decided at the Conference and after?
I’m aware the election is not confirmed, but the electoral commission are already advertising it as a reason to register to vote.
It certainly would be amusing for Brexit to be the catalyst of the UK’s break up.
In the short term, there are going to be a lot of parties standing in the prospective EU election who will be splitting their own vote.
Brexit (by the way have you seen about Anne Widdecombe…) and UKIP
LibDem, ChangeUK, Green and the SNP (on Europe anyway)
The two major parties are also taking a relatively similar stance in the grand scheme of things, but it appears to be very contested on a political level. I suppose it always will be where political power and domestic profitability are at stake!
I wonder whether this multi party election – especially given that it’s PR – will be fruitful or tricky ground for the SPGB at a prospective EU election, going by your experience?
Although the line I included about “opening up British businesses” is not really what I meant, a tired sentence.
I agree Robbo. A class based analysis elucidates a debate between capitalists over the best way to manage the socio-economic conditions in their interests.
The political messages at the surface level are what most workers engage with, European Internationalism/Liberalism versus British Protectionism. What is amusing in my eyes is that both political messages hide the opposite economic fundamentals. The EU has fundamentally protectionist economic institutions, whilst the ERG types support opening up British businesses and the British Labour market to a large scale devaluation, not a shoring up.
This I suppose is the difference between right wing brexiteers and left wing Eurosceptics, leaving the EU to degrade or elevate the economic conditions of workers in Britain respectively. The issue is that this left wing eurosceptism presumes that British workers deserve better material conditions than workers overseas, and also presumes that it is even possible for “revolution” to be achieved by one “working class” in isolation. It is as if capifalist businesses will just follow suit and operate only in one country. In response to this you often read of Unions of Socialist Republics, but I’d sooner sell snow to the inuits. To me, it all just smells of a nostalgia for the past, where in their eyes there was a more tangible class struggle before joining the EEC. Of course, it doesn’t really matter if it’s tangible or not, and if it isn’t, you’ve probably failed to move with the times (Excuse my rambling).
Either way, Brexit is a converse opportunity to break and be distinct from an unpopular capitalist binary. There appear to be no illusions that a “socialist” controlled EU, “socialist” british State or “Union of Socialist States” can change the inherent realities for workers under capitalism. Many voted for Brexit due to nationalistic tendencies and anti austerity sentiment (perhaps both) but I guess it’s our cause to insist upon capitalism as being the biggest problem for workers.
I suppose it is worth self reflecting that a lot of workers may not easily engage with what I just wrote. The task then must be condensing it down and having further material there for those whose attention we do manage to attain.
Hi Robbo.
I think the important message is about “not taking sides” in an inherently capitalist debate.
“Fed up of Brexit?” “What about Socialism” might grab peoples attention if we can get it in front of their eyes?
This will also differentiate the party from other “socialist” parties who are often hard Eurosceptics, laced with arguments for “British workers”
Obviously it also distances us from smug liberals…
Also mentioned these ideas on another thread:
“More resources for working people? We need Socialism, not Brexit. Leave Capitalism”
Or variants of this, what do you reckon?
“They deserve a Labour Party that offers clarity on this issue, as well as the radical vision for a new political economy achieved by working with our socialist allies inside the EU.
Does it get any more vague and vacuous than this?
Hello Dave,
That’s great. I have friends in the South East (but not Folkestone, unfortunately) but if we stand in the South East at the EU elections I’d be sure to speak with them about the SPGB.
Thank you for pointing out the conference. I believe I am free next weekend. Just to clarify, a couple of people from the West Midlands have been nominated as delegates, could I still attend just as a member?
Haha Robbo, what time is it where you are? Either way, some good slogans there
Some good slogans around Brexit as well as any leaflets to circulate with further detail in conjunction?
“Brexit? Socialism”
“Leave Capitalism”
Keep it simple? Or as Robbo says make reference to more resources.
“More resources for working people? We need Socialism, not Brexit. Leave Capitalism”
Or variants of this.
Despite the shortsightedness of the issue the word Brexit seems to bother workers (no doubt it’s wearing a bit thin but EU elections keep it relevant), so at least including the word could encourage them to engage.
Again this is the sort of thing I’d definitely advertise either through a placard or leafletting etc
Any thoughts ?
Hi Alan,
Fortunately I’m above shop level, so they’d have to be a good shot…
I’d definitely be interested in something along those lines, was that self produced?
James
Hello comrades,
My name is James, I’ve just joined the party.
Interesting the read through this, it’s good to see members opinions on the Brexit issue
Without taking sides (no denying the outcome will not change the fundamentals for workers) the whole debacle is certainly an opportunity
If the right chord can be struck with workers I think there is scope for getting our idea of socialism across
Perhaps by putting forward socialism as the way out of the capitalist political impasse and the right wing binary debates which have caused it
Would be good to discuss ways of propagating this message, as I think the conditions are ripe for its uptake
