J Surman
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Hollyhead wrote:'As for "the message and language used in the past is not hitting the right note" I recall a suggestion made at one Summer School by Comrade Janet Surman. In effect she suggested a school / teach-in /(?correspondence course) on interaction with non-socialists.'I've just checked those notes, at which point I was talking about using effective communication. An excerpt goes like this – –'conversation is a 2-way process. It's useful to recognise the importance of active listening. So often people are only half listening, waiting for the first opportunity to leap in and put their own point of view before hearing you out.
we don't want to get bogged down with vocabulary and terminology, disagreeing about details when we broadly agree about the nitty-gritty
Just because you said something doesn't mean the other person understood you, likewise you may or may not get the gist of what someone else says to you.'Now, that didn't go down well in certain quarters, but I feel if a nerve is touched maybe it tells us something and it's a case of if the cap fits then wear it. Gwynn Thomas was the one who came up with the suggestion that maybe this kind of topic could usefully be employed in a workshop situation at a future summer school or elsewhere.I'm certainly for being open minded and interested in pursuing approaches that further our expansion and wouldn't want to write anything off before giving it due consideration. Communication has to be a vital part of this. For me learning/education is a lifelong process – another great aspect of our vision of a world socialist society.DJP wrote:Noticed this book on the website from that link abovehttp://astore.amazon.com/climaandcapit-20/detail/1608461408Anyone read it?No, I was aware of it some time ago but chose not to get it because a) I've read extracts at the C and C site and have read articles from most of those whose reviews are on DJP's link, and although they mostly have well researched material to offer attacking the rapacious capitalist system, b) – for me they generally fall at the last hurdle (I think I used that phrase about Chris Williams book 'Ecology and Socialism'). Basically what I'm trying to get across is that one can read and feel really optimistic about 90% of a book or article, reach the final chapter and be severely let down because all that's been written to that point is negated by the cop out of how to handle the situation. No mention of abolishing the wages system, only getting the wages system right; doing capitalism a different way and calling it socialism; they accuse the capitalist system of being the cause of all our ills – especially the environment, global warming etc, but after calling for a revolution, they only seem to want to fix the current system.Now Ian Angus and a lot of the others on that list of reviewers are academics, specialists and seriously intelligent people. Angus responds personally to commentors on the Climate and Capitalism site. He says he welcomes contributions from all comers for consideration for publication on the site. There is so much we have in common with such people BUT— how on earth do we get them to even see over that last hurdle, let alone jump it?Am I being too harsh or seeking the impossible here? I don't believe they don't acknowledge the capitalist sytem has to go – root and branch – so why don't they come out and say so? Actually they do say so but then somehow retract (It's not this awful thing of needing to keep tenure is it – pay the mortgage etc?)
ALB wrote:]Bit surprised,though, to see Ian Angus describing himself as an "ecosocialist". He's the same Ian Angus who criticised the old SPC for not adopting Bolshevik tactics during the 1919 Winnipeg General Strike (see the thread on this).Yes, He's the editor of 'Climate and Capitalism' – ecosocialism or barbarianism. They do have some interesting stuff on their site but their kind of socialism manages the economy better and more fairly (my tongue is bulging my cheek) than capitalism. Get rid of capitalism, have fair wages, be kind to the environment, etc etc.For anyone interested in more on B Commoner (on the C and C site today) here's the link:http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/climateandcapitalism/pEtD/~3/b5-n0kpHXEw/
Just like to say that an uncle of mine, a vicar of the church of England for decades, stated quite categorically that he had no belief whatsoever in any kind of afterlife. We never discussed socialism but now I look back I wished I knew about the party in those days because I’m sure we would have had much to agree upon, knowing the kind of man he was.
Hud955 wrote:Wow! I want one!Well you can have one!www.abebooks.co.uk have them from various independent booksellers (this one seems to be all from the US).Starting price £130.48 + shipping of £10.77. Cheap at half the price?
gnome wrote:Any possibility of a third option combining the best of both Fircroft and Harborne, Mike? That is, bar, en-suite rooms and good breakfasts to boot.I’ll second Gnome’s ‘third option’.Any local news on the security guy/bar tender/dogsbody, Mike?
Good morning!I’ve tried to send this several times, but with an apallingly slow connection in this rural backwater, failed miserably.I sent an email with information about our website, email address, blogspot, free material available from head office, plus 3 months free SS and an invitation to any of the meetings available around the country – assuming s/he is a UK resident.
Brief response to you and Ozymandias; rather than looking at organisations as a whole, maybe we should see them as a collection of individuals? Within the SPGB we encounter many viewpoints of how to achieve particular goals but we broadly agree on the overall concept. Zeitgeist is a – well what can we call it really? – a loose collection of independently -minded individuals who, as individuals, could well be disposed to hearing and being convinced by our arguments.Not having met anyone from Zeitgeist nor having visited their forum, has anyone from WSM/SPGB had any positive feedback from a one to one or small group encounter? (I did read about last week’s discussion with them, but apart from that?)
I add my thanks to all who contributed to make the 2012 Summer school such a positive and enjoyable event. In addition to the talks and post-talk discussions which were extremely lively with plenty of input there were informal small group discussions continuing throughout all ‘spare’ time. From breakfast time until the early hours one could always find a group to latch on to in order to listen and talk some more about the many topics that interest us – without the usual ‘Yeah, but—‘ to spoil it.It was great to meet up again with comrades old and new, young and old and to have the stimulation and motivation to carry me over some of the more depressing incidents we all have to deal with in our daily lives. If you’ve never attended one of these events I heartily recommend it – and I look forward to meeting next year’s attendees.
SussexSocialist wrote:I think its hedging your bets a little……..I think it’s hedging your bets a lot! However, how many others, like me, can’t even be bothered to read the article offered to us? If we wanted any more reading/opinion on the matter we would seek it out. I, for one, have had enough decades to mull this over and am perfectly happy with my own conclusions. I haven’t heard anything new or remotely interesting on this topic for a very long time. I just wanted to register my boredom. Yawnnnnnnnn.
Re the report of the meeting ‘Life without money’.Very succinctly put, Adam. I imagine it was well accepted. I’m certainly ‘sold’ on the idea – again! We now await the discussion with interest.
One world, one people, I interpret as we are all one species – which we are; able to interbreed with any other person. The One world is the only one we’ve got and we must share it with everybody.Multiculturalism is what we have to a greater or lesser extent depending on where we live. However, it’s how we value our own and others’ individualism/individuality that determines how well we can all get along together.Politics is deliberately divisive – aimed at control of the masses. But a socialist world – our aim – is striving for a world where all will have equity. One species peacefully cohabiting on its home planet.
I gave it a go the day it was posted and was a hedonist. Now really there weren’t enough choices for me to answer accurately, I would have preferred to write my own responses, however i just gave it another go knowing that I wouldn’t remember all of my earlier ones three days later. And I wasn’t allowed to miss answering any. It’s much too rigid for me! Anyway, guess what – I’m still a hedonist. Can’t imagine what you poor ‘hounded’ ones answered.
gnome wrote:Wonder what the hair looks like after a bit of rough and tumble with the Newt? Probably much the same
No! She definitely takes it off when she goes to bed.
“In this evolving dynamic, the protest in Koodankulam demonstrates the power of an organised non-violent mass movement. For six months, the people of the region physically stopped the construction of a nuclear plant, while resisting a barrage of governmental propaganda. Whether or not the government is finally able to force the construction of this particular reactor, this enduring movement is likely to serve as an inspiration for environmental groups throughout the world.” Yes, these people have been amazing – against all odds. I find events like these can raise lowered spirits and it is possible to reimagine what real democracy could be like. We grew up being told, even believing that our governments were there to represent us and our interests. How they duped us and continue to dupe so many. Well it’s not so easy for them now – the word on the street (and in the ether) spreads more widely and rapidly – and the general feeling of the denial of democracy is growing fast. More people are wising up and putting themselves on the line to get themselves and their demands heard.A groundswell of general raising of consciousness? Now wouldn’t that be a wonderful thing!
