J Surman
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Ozymandias said:'Ironic that I should bemoan this when both of us are ex members. I should really get my finger out and rejoin.'Yes, of course I remember you, we had some good conversation. Re the statement above – yes, you could 'get your finger out' and rejoin, or you could keep on doing your bit to promote both the party and socialism – or you could do both!?Any chance of seeing you again at the 2014 summer school?
Ozymandias wrote:(I know I shouldn't say "we" and "ours" when I'm no longer even a member but you get me right?).I'm very glad that you do! Let's embrace all those who speak with a similar voice. It's not membership that matters but principles.
Thanks Steve, I've got that from Roar mag – but what I want is a copy of the relevant New Statesman, ie 'REVOLUTION'.I'd really like to see what the other contributors have to say on this – do any of them come even close to what we hold dear?
I may be a bit late with this one:http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/roarmag/~3/2YULmP-QawU/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=emailbut there's a follow up today here:http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/roarmag/~3/oo5Gi3Czt28/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=emailby the editor of Roar Mag, Jerome Roos who finishes his article with this:"Ultimately, it’s not Russell Brand who gives me hope. Even though I greatly enjoyed his interview, I frankly don’t care very much what this celebrity tells the BBC or what he writes in the New Statesman. It’s the fact that his heartfelt revolutionary desire still resonates with millions that truly thrills me. I wouldn’t predict a revolution just yet. But that’s because I know it’s already begun."Whilst this doesn't reflect my own response exactly, I do believe that it certainly increases the audience, if not the participants – and they're not all young. This cuts across all kinds of boundaries and as others have already commented, it raises the profile for discussion of something other than the status quo. It's up to us all to use every bit of ammunition we can get our hands on to spread our version of what the revolution could be.By the way, I knew the guy's name (R.B.) but had no idea why or for what he was famous until 2 days ago. Laugh all you like but presumably there are a few others out there like me – cut off from or disinterested in mass media?I'm also hoping some kind person can source the relevant issue of the New Statesman and send it to me.
Presumably you're referring to the Gezi Park protests? I would say they have morphed somewhat. There are spasmodic demos going on in a number od cities, sparked by different stimuli. I would say the overall sentiment is huge dissatisfaction with the government, especially the PM, for his heavy handed authoritarian way of dealing with any and every situation.There was another death last week in Antakya province where students were demonstrating in support of students of the Middle eastern technical Uni, where thousands of trees were cut on campus to drive a huge road through. There was denial on the part of the police as to how the youth died, even though it was caught on film. There have been a week of nightly protests there. There are demos against involvement in Syria. Public opinion is largely against that. There is much general dissatisfaction. Local elections are next spring, maybe then we'll get a clearer idea of how much it's directed against the AK party.This site http://www.jadaliyya.com/ has some excellent coverage on a rolling basis if you want more in depth stuff. There is a 'Turkey' section and also a weekly round-up for Turkey.We'll be in Istanbul at the end of the month for a few days. Hope to get some time in with friends for more in depth discussion. Will report back.As for 'success' – you could say the biggest success is so many people prepared to get out there to stand up for whatever it is they believe in or are in disagreement about – demanding some kind of democracy and they don't seem to be going away.
rodshaw wrote:Out of interest, does anyone know of any societies whose language doesn't differentiate between the sexes? No 'he', 'she', etc?In Turkish 'he', 'she', 'it' are all 'o'. There are words for man, woman, etc. Sister is literally translated 'girl brother' and then there are specific words for family members to denote whether they're on the mother's or father's side – easy to identify whether an aunt / uncle is from the father's/mother's side. And so on – – –
Just to add, a few minutes later, here's a talk (video) from the same party by Larry Everest:http://www.countercurrents.org/everest140913.htmI can't watch it – not enough band width, but it's just to make the point again about reaching a wider audience.
This is part of what one Hurriyet Daily News reporter has to say today (basically an opposition paper):"Speaking of a decrease in support for a pointless battle in Syria, the desperate wait is particularly painful for Turkey and its senior officials, including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, since they all see losing more time against the Syrian “dictator” as a setback, or even an insult, in their aggressive domestic and neo-Ottomanist regional policies. Even while the main Western supporters of war have been keeping a low-profile over diving into a conflict amid the reluctance of the United Nations, Turkish officials have been bold enough to publicly lobby for a battle, as if they are blinded to a potential backlash from Syria.The only reasonable explanation for Turkey’s high spirit for a war would be that it has already been pulled into the Syrian quagmire and has long been suffering from the spillover. However, this is not the conclusion Turkish officials would agree on despite the growing reports of casualties in the south and southeast of Turkey."Kilicdaroglu, the leader of the main opposition CHP, is on TV today, excoriating Erdogan, the PM for 'lobbying' to be part of an invasion into Syria. But it's not seen as a party with a whole load of pull or charisma, they've lost a lot of support over the years , seen as too distant from a lot of the people. Public opinion is dead set against it but I also read today of the turkish military setting up a new base right across the border near Latakia. They've moved coastguard boats as near as is possible to the sea border and military vehicles seem to be regularly on the move down there.I think it's the NYT today reporting a 'planned 3 day attack' very soon, 'strategic bombing', assess, then more 'strategic bombing.'It's difficult to suss out the military's own stance on this whole thing. After the recent judgements on a whole host of serving and retired military – the Ergenekon trial – and severe sentencing, talking to Turkish friends, the public is also somewhat confused and split on the military. Too complicated to go into mit here!Remember public opinion here before the Iraq invasion forced the govt to change its tack (the same govt) and disallow the use of Turkish territory for troops to cross into Iraq. Erdogan has become much stronger and dare i say intransigent, so who knows how they will play it, but if they do more than they're doing now – which isn't popular – who knows what the blowback will be.Anyone interested in more on this can access http://www.hurriyetdailynews.comAnother site with a Turkish section is http://jadaliyya.com/ They cover all kinds of topics at some length.Oh, by the way, more news today – a follow on to the Gezi protests – protests again in Istanbul following a huge tree cutting spree on the technical university site to make a road, something to do with the new 3rd airport construction. And the polis are out in force again.
Coincidentally I'd just put this up today on SOYMB – and then found the current conversation. I was a Rotherham United fan in my teens. Not any more!http://www.socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-beautiful-game-neoliberalism-gone.html
Here's a link to a very interesting article by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya from Global Reasearch from last week connecting the dots to the 1982 Yinon plan.http://tinyurl.com/kedjnuh or http://www.globalresearch.ca/yinons-revenge-a-panoramic-of-chaos-in-the-arab-world/5346899Oded Yinon is quoted throughout to back up the point the author is making. Broken up states, smaller and more chaotic entities are easier to control and when you take a look at the original list of the 'axis of evil' countries I think he speaks a lot of sense. We shouldn't view Syria separately, in my opinion, it's a part of the wider plan for the area in which Iran features too, originally drawn up by Yinon and soon endorsed by the US government and military.You can google the Yinon plan if you want more on that.
No, never wondered. Can't be bothered personally – far too many other things to be doing. I wouldn't have a clue where to start and I really don't want to know. It's a simple matter of horses for courses I think. (Same with all the frilly bits with smily faces etc)
Well we've been (mostly) happily not-married for almost 35 years because that was our decision, however in this strange property-oriented system we live within it has caused a few headaches/problems over the years. It seems we don't fit into the system too well. We usually end up being financially penalised one way or another. Living in Turkey has been another eye-opener to this state of living arrangement. Because of our age no one looks at us as if we may be 'living in sin' even when we present our documents at hotels, but I did have to 'buy' half the car in order to be able to be insured to drive it and health cover (national) costs us nearly double that of married couples – but hey, what the heck, it's all about principles after all! Roll on socialism!
Young Master Smeet wrote:It's hard to play the pragmatic/practical card when professional politicians are getting emotive over chemical weapons (which are, of course, abominable).Abominable as they may be it hasn't stopped the west from using chemical weapons for years with extremely abominable results. And they continue to use them and sell them to anyone who wants them – what else would you do with all the waste from nuclear projects? Depleted uranium, before that agent orange, whatever. Sheer hypocrisy.Look at the horrific evidence from Iraq – but i won't go on about that.Syria? They've been on the axis of evil list for some years now, so we have to 'get them', don't we? No matter what the outcome, no matter who recently used the chemical weapons, and it points strongly to the 'rebel' side. My future world is a socialist world and would be happy to see Assad, like Cameron, Obama, et al overthrown with that end in mind BUT it's not about that and what the hell will happen IF the Syrian military is beaten and the place is left in the hands of the jihadis? It appears that numbers of the FSA have even crossed over to the government side, recognising their better option.People here (Turkey) aren't too happy about what's going on next door either even if the PM does love to keep winding things up. A staunch NATO member. Sorry, links and things are far too time consuming for me with this 2G moble link so I'm sticking with simple messages.
