[Ed]

What's wrong with the forum and internet department?It seems to me that if you make enough noise you can get away with anything and if you stay silent and respect the moderators decisions you are discredited and the EC and internet department takes a giant shit all over you.

[Ed]

`Hi Tom would you be willing to try out this quick game it's designed to help people see the ridiculousness of race.Downloadable version (better)http://www.gamesforchange.org/play/guess-my-race/Online versionhttp://www.pbs.org/race/002_SortingPeople/002_01-sort.htm

[Ed]

We should do them for false advertising. It's an introduction to Leninism.

[Ed]

[Ed]

emily_chalmers wrote:

When did you decide you were a communist? What turned you against the Soviet Union? Why do you think some people still defend Stalin?

'I first decided I was a communist' when working in a service sector job. I had grown up in dire financial circumstances and witnessed many people who were living in even worse conditions. I was lucky to be given a well paying job without any qualifications or experience. The job was in the high end service sector, acquiescing to the whims of London's super rich. I would wager there are few circumstances where the average worker and the average multi-millionaire spend more time in close proximity. This accentuated the vast sums of money that they were able squander, while at the same time trying to help my own homeless father and knowing many more people who were in dire financial trouble. Looking back I can also say that the vast disparity between my salary and how much value my labour created was also a large factor, although I wouldn't have phrased it like that at the time. To put it in perspective my salary was £25,000 per annum and I once made £110,000 in 10 minutes for my bosses. It was also the freedom of these multi-millionaires that shocked me the most. It was a revelation to see that the richer a person is the less they have to pay for things. I remember one instance where the daughter of a high ranking Communist party of China official was moving flat. Instead of her paying for removal men the bosses sent my colleagues, the doormen/drivers round with a fleet of cars to move her stuff for her. But it wasn't just the economic freedom of these people it was the social freedom to be able to treat people however they wanted, as lesser beings or as objects to be bought.I think my first steps to deciding to start calling myself a communist came when I started speculating on what the world would be like if workers controlled their places of work. I started thinking what would a supermarket be like if it were owned and run by workers? What would the underground be like if it were run by workers? What would my job be like if it were run by me and my colleagues? My conclusion to all of these thoughts was that life for the vast majority of people would obviously be much better. I then asked myself the most important question why aren't these things run by workers?For an uneducated or to steal a term from Tookie Williams diseducated young man the only communism I knew was the the Soviet Union more accurately the Soviet Union under Stalin. Anarchism to me was Johnny Rotten and punks, a hedonistic lifestyle choice which would result in the most common usage of the word anarchy. So I started a little flirtation with Stalinism. Anything bad about the Soviet Union was justified as a means to an end. Of getting rid of the rich, of punishing them for their excesses. At this stage I certainly wasn't an internationalist or really had any conception of what that was. Nor was I for a stateless, moneyless society, I was for more money for workers and better living conditions. The state was, to me, then, an absolute necessity. Society could not function without it and any suggestion that it could would have seemed preposterous. I cared about working class unity, but I didn't really care about other workers, anyone getting in the way would get their just deserved. I can now see that this was caused by alienation, the same alienation which causes people to become neo-nazi's. A lack of value of others value, a kind of narcissism where my interests must be met, at any cost. This is all quite a natural and all to common reaction to growing up in a capitalist society where we are all constantly forced to compete with one another.'What turned me against the Soviet Union?' This is the simplest to answer, reading Marx. At this stage in my development I hadn't actually read any Marx at all. It was just the idea of industry being run by workers that appealed to me and the only knowledge of that had been through the media and popular culture and so on. I really had no conception of what communism was other than a form of government where the freedoms of the rich were curtailed. So after a 6 year period without reading a single book I picked up the communist manifesto and started reading. It wasn't an overnight transformation but I certainly noticed a lot of contradictions to what I had previously assumed to be communism. For the next two years I read Marx and Engels almost obsessively, I can't say at what point I had a revelation but it was fairly early on that i realized that communism as I had known it, was absolute bollocks. I went on to read some Trotsky and then some Lenin and by this time the contradictions to Marxism were all too apparent. It was probably around then that I stopped calling myself a communist and actually became one.

emily_chalmers wrote:

Do they and other defenders of the Soviet Union have any legitimate grounds for their beliefs?

That would depend on the context of exactly what they were defending about the Soviet Union and what argument was being put forward. Say if they were defending the Soviet Union against an accusation of Stalin killing 200 million people then yeah they probably have some legitimacy. But if they are trying to say that the capitalism had been abolished in the Soviet Union then they have no legitimacy. As I alluded to previously the reason for Stalinism's existence as a surviving ideology is in large part down to alienation. A disconnect from positive social relations. A contempt for the rest of the working class believing them incapable of running society, they feel that the working class will not be able to come to the same conclusions that they have, so they must be led by them forcibly. They seem to be stuck in what a comrade aptly phrases 'private property thought'. In other words they have yet to become class conscious workers who know and understand that capitalism can never work in the interests of the working class. As history, economics and reality are all against them they freely change the facts whenever it suits them. In this way they are not that different to those who believe in an illuminati or lizard men or whatever, just with a red flag.

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TheOldGreyWhistle wrote:

I think this post needs to be considered by the IC as it is obvious which one is abusive and agressive. Post 22 also calls for a comrade to be silenced which to me flies in the face of everything I stand for and I hope the party

Which is exactly what you did to me you hypocrite! All for saying the word shit. Pathetic

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aden wrote:

Ed wrote:

aden wrote:

This is a strange forum! What are your own members allowed to say? I have been reading articles over the last 3 months on your site and came across thishttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2012/no-1297-september-2012/50-years-ago-fascism-and-ignorance but I am disappointed to find that your own members are 'shouted down' and shut up via bans! 

Do you think it's ok to accuse members of being police infiltrators? In other words don't believe the hype

I have done some research on the site and your banned member definitely did not accuse anyone of being a police infiltrator, So your comment is untrue and inflammatory.In fact you have also referred to your comrades as the 'north east mafia'. Why have you not received a warning for these unless you are somehow favoured?My research indicates that your banned member used a lot less abuse and insinuation than most others on this forum including yourself

Does your research come straight from the mouth of Maratty?Do you find the word shit abusive?Do you find 4 people ganging up on 1 to not be abusive?Do you not think a member has the right to defend themselves when they are being attacked by a group of 4?Are you Maratty using a different account?  

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aden wrote:

This is a strange forum! What are your own members allowed to say? I have been reading articles over the last 3 months on your site and came across thishttp://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2010s/2012/no-1297-september-2012/50-years-ago-fascism-and-ignorancebut I am disappointed to find that your own members are 'shouted down' and shut up via bans! 

Do you think it's ok to accuse members of being police infiltrators? In other words don't believe the hype     

[Ed]

steve colborn wrote:

This is an explicit accusation that the TROUBLE on this site, if trouble there was, was as a direct result of actions by OGW. An accusation, that only a passing glance at his posts would dispel.That however comrades, is not the worst of this! as the following post shows and yet not merely this but that a post such as this, submitted at 1.43 has not even been challenged by the wider users of this forum.

I have done NOTHING WRONG and I stand by every word I've said. I have been subjected to constant attacks and sniping from your little clique. You've hounded me like a pack of wolves. Not content with that he then brings it to spintcom and starts peddleing his lies there as well. It's a despicably low game you lot are playing the bullies painting the victim as the bully. You disgust me

[Ed]

Perhaps names should be mentioned. I think I can be forgiven for being more than a little paranoid in thinking you may be referring to me, given the campaign of hatred I've endured. According to the North East Mafia I'm a cop. According to Paddy Shannon I'm an ignorant hooligan.and all for saying the word shitSo if anyone wants to throw anymore abuse my way there's no need to be coy. It's the in thing to do at the moment.

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gnome wrote:

That news is to be welcomed of course and maybe partly due to a extended period of relative tranquillity since the forum's inception.  However, events of the past week will not have done the party many favours and although it goes against the grain it may well be necessary to consider permanent exclusion of some users.  The case for socialism is far more important and pressing than the egos of a few individuals.  Freedom of expression involves responsibility and sometimes comes at a price.

I think it would be a shame to lose the forum just because of the old grey whistle test

[Ed]

I suggest you and your cronies come down to ADM no one can stop you spouting your hysterical bollocks there

[Ed]

steve colborn wrote:

Slandered Ed? I never knew that disagreeing with someone was akin to slander! Nor did I realise that not agreeing with someones argument and putting a counter argument was an Attack!As for being THREATENED, I read Northern Lights comments a while ago, and he was speaking retrospectively, of the way he would have reacted years ago, to someone who called him a LIAR to his face.Please don't continue, anyone, with this type of rhetoric.As a Socialist, my only focus is putting the case for Socialism. I'm looking forward to people, on the different threads on this site, hopefully coming up with inspiring methods for propogating the case for Socialism.That should be the only focus for us all.

To his face?I ASK A STRAIGHT QUESTION AND HE SAYS HE'S A NAUGHTY GIRL WHO MAKES THINGS UPWHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK?And a threat of physical violence is still a threat of physical violence retrospective or not.

[Ed]

TheOldGreyWhistle wrote:

Ed wrote:

 Cry me a fucking river pal you lot love to dish it out but you run away crying anytime anyone gives it back. 

'You lot'       Who are you referring to?Where have you been threatened, attacked  etc? If you had been attacked and threatened it would be you who I was defending. I am a sucker for the underdog

I'm referring to you socialist punk and northern light, the three horsemen of the apocolypse

northern light wrote:

 Ed, What I said was, "I  can not, will not apply to join the SPGB.Please do not misquote me. The party does not allow entry on religious grounds, so I can not, will not, simple as that.There was a time, if you had told me I was a liar, to my face, you would have been on your hands and knees picking up teeth. I am older and more mellow now, but I still find a remark like that offensive. I have never been in the habit of lying, so if I have made an error, that is all it will be, and I will hold my hand up, and admit it, but, come on, spring your trap!Where do you get this notion that I mentioned reforms, the SPGB is not a reform party. Again you are putting words in my mouth.I posted a list, and said, "These are just a sample of some of the issues in the public domain. The working class is looking for answers, and it is not finding those answers in main-stream politics."If you are going to play games with me, at least try dealing with a straight deck.

This would be an instant ban on most forums. Did I react? No I let it slide because I wanted the situation resolved.Now lets look at this threadI disagree with socialist punkHe attacks meadmits that he attacked meI try to clarify what I've just said and don't retaliatehe attacks me againFuck that I'm done letting these cheap jibes slide

[Ed]

TheOldGreyWhistle wrote:

Ed wrote:

TheOldGreyWhistle wrote:

To socialist punk and northern light. Do not allow Ed or anyone else put you off the Party. The Party and its case is bigger than one or two members. I believe the attitude of Ed is driving members and potential members away. I have said in the past it would be difficult to pass a conference resolution dealing with such attituded but the party needs to deal with the problem, perhaps using the Rule dealing with action detrimental. To edYour comments 'bullshit' and 'shit' to refer to a socialist's comments are not welcome on this forum. Are you REALLY in the party for socialism? Or is there another reason? WHERE IS 'ADMIN'? HOW MANY WARNINGS  BEFORE BEING REMOVED FROM FORUM?

Cry me a fucking river pal you lot love to dish it out but you run away crying anytime anyone gives it back.Oh yeah conspiracy theories real c;lassy

Do you talk to people like that face to face?

I do when I'm being attacked, threatened and slandered.

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