[DJP]

Brian, you’re half right and half wrong. It is made by two people from TZM who we debated with in Norwich but they’re making the films under their own initiative. Here’s their youtube channel to see more of what they’ve done:http://www.youtube.com/newfuturemedia

[DJP]

 You can read this journal online here:http://sic.communisation.net/They definitely share the same definition of communism with us, as a moneyless, stateless world community. Though I haven’t read them in enough depth to have a real opinion of their concept of  ‘communisation’.The related journal ‘Endnotes’, is worth reading.. www.endnotes.org.uk

[DJP]

Just read Deitzgen’s “The Positive Outcome of Philosophy”.  I’d highly recommend it to anyone interested in “dialectical monism”.  I like his clear and down to earth style. There’s a talk by Steve Coleman which should be re-uploaded soon that would make a good introduction, as would the one in the book, written by Pannekoek – who all leftist trainspotters should have heard of.It’s online here:http://www.archive.org/details/positiveoutcome00dietgoogHere are some passages I liked

Quote:

 
The first principle, then, declares that A is A, or to
speak mathematically, every quantity is equal to itself.
In plain English : a thing is what it is ; no thing is what
it is not. “Characters which are excluded by any con-
ception must not be attributed to it.” The square is ex-
cluded from the conception of a circle, therefore the pre-
dicate “square” must not be given to a circle. For the
same’ reason a straight line must not be crooked, and a
lie must not be true.

Now this so-called law of thought may be well enough
for household use, where nothing but known quantities
are under consideration. A thing is what it is. Right is
not left and one hundred is not one thousand. Whoever
is named Peter or Paul remains Peter or Paul all his life.
This, I say, is all right for household use.

But when we consider matters from the wider point of
view of cosmic universal life, then this famous law of
thought proves to be nothing but an expedient in logic
which is not adequate to the nature of things, but merely
a means of mutual understanding for us human beings.

Hence the left bank of the Rhine is not the right, because
we have agreed that in naming the banks of a river we
will turn our backs to the source and our faces to the
mouth of the river and then designate the banks as right
and left Such a way of distinguishing, thinking, and
judging is good and practical, so long as this narrow
standpoint is accompanied by the consciousness of its
narrowness. Hitherto this has not been the case. This
determined logic has overlooked that the perception
which is produced by its rules is not truth, not the real
world, but only gives an ideal, more or less accurate, re-
flection of it. Peter and Paul, who according to the law
of identity are the same all their lives, are in fact dif-
ferent fellows every minute and every day of their lives,
and all things of this world are, like those two, not con-
stant, but very variable quantities. The mathematical
points, the straight lines, the round circles, are ideals.
In reality every point has a certain dimension, every
straight line, when seen through a magnifying glass, is
full of many crooked turns, and even the roundest circle,
according to the mathematicians, consists of an infinite
number of straight lines.

[DJP]

gnome wrote:

For my part, I’m taking a very positive attitude to this strike. I’m positive that it’s a waste of time even discussing this half-baked stunt any more than I already have which is virtually zilch. Best thing to do with those who subscribe to this nonsense is to provide them with a platform and then sit back and wait until they fall off it!  I predict that the wait won’t be very long………

Well, 150 days according to the Olympic Games website.But saying that if anyone is serious about the idea of a moneyless society they are free to join the Socialist Party, providing they take the time to study our aims and principles and understand and agree with them.

[DJP]

yabanji wrote:

The billions already convinced are enough.

I’m sorry to say it but you’re deluding yourself. The 27th July will come and go and NOTHING will happen.If you really want to work for a world of free access you’ll have to accept this and be prepared to put in the long and tedious work that is required to bring it about.It took hundreds of years for the transition from fuedalism to capitalism to be fully completed, we have to accept that we may not live to see the realisation of a moneyless society; but, like the builders of cathedrals, we have contributed to something that will long outlive our children and childrens children.There are no shortcuts to the new society, we must face this or otherwise suffer bitter disappointment and withdrawal.

[DJP]

yabanji wrote:

Fuck the reality that They created!  Imagine the new world We can create, with real justice for all!

Indeed! But if you’re going to convince anyone other than those already convinced you’re going to have to learn to convey yourself better than that.

[DJP]

Ozymandias wrote:

Watched this video and it doesn’t  fill me me with hope at all…just depression. I went over to Blythswood Sq in Glasgow in November to talk with the “occupiers” there. Ok they were enthusiastic but didn’t have a single iota about how capitalism operates or what the solution is. It really depressed me.

But why would you expect it to be any other way? I think there is a tendency for people to project their own wishes on to large and visible movements and then to feel disappointed when they do not act in the way they hoped. It is clear that real communism is an ultra minority view point at the present time, this is to be expected.All that these developments present us with is a platform with which we can explain and discuss our perspective with people who are BEGINNING to question the status-quo. You visited the occupy camp in Glasgow, how many times? Our argument has so many layers / premises that it takes more than one meeting to get the point across. All we can do is partake in the process, I attended many discussions at the Norwich camp and even presented a brief text on the Marxian analysis of how capitalism works. (Though most of the campers, especially near the end, did not seem to be interested in discussing, I think these things had a tendency to turn into homeless shelters / hang-outs for teenage kids)

Quote:

Looks as if Occupy is in disarray now anyway whilst TZM is dwindling fast. Let’s face it folks we are all doomed. This species is on it’s way out…fast!

I think you place too much emphasis and hope in big flavour of the day ‘organisations’. The ‘real movement that changes the existing order of things’ is not Occupy, TZM or even the Socialist Party; it is the proletariat as a whole. All we can do is participate in the process – we have no ther choice.

[DJP]

How on earth can a strike achieve a moneyless society? Such a thing cannot be achieved by people withdrawing their labour but by people consciously cordinating how their labour is conducted and distributed.This is bound to be a dismal flop.I guess the best thing it will provide is platform for speaking to people who may be interested in ‘full communsim’ as it were…

[DJP]

Just sharing this rather twee video of Occupy Norwich

[DJP]

Here’s the 1934 illustrated version of ‘Capital’http://graphicwitness.org/contemp/marxtitle.htm

[DJP]

jondwhite wrote:

Gutted it clashes with Marxism Festival.

Perhaps they should rename it the confused leftists and state-capitalist apologist festival. “Thank heavens I am not a Marxist!” 

[DJP]

Don’t know about Fredrid Jameson or what he says.There are numerous guides to Capital out there, of the ones I’ve read Ben Fine’s and Alfredo Saad-Filho’s is probably the best:http://www.scribd.com/doc/27910148/Ben-Fine-Guide-to-Marx-s-CapitalOr this unpublished guide by Simon Clarke is pretty good:http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~syrbe/mst/Capital.doc

[DJP]

Re-reading the page I linked to above it would seem I got the wrong impression that they are suggesting a transitional society at all. Still there are some obvious differences.

[DJP]

ALB wrote:

But does anyone know what he means by socialism? Is it the same as us?

They definately see communism as a moneyless, stateless society. Though they may think that a transitionary society is necessary. See this section of their website:http://www.marxisthumanistinitiative.org/alternatives-to-capital/what-must-be-changed-in-order-to-transcend-capitalism.html

[DJP]

Ozymandias wrote:

I was going to post this myself since I got the email from the MHI. I read the synopsis of the book with great interest although I get confused by a lot of the technical details sometimes. What is the Party’s position to what Kliman is saying? He rejects under-consumptionist ideas.

From what I have read of the book, the first 3 chapters, there would be know major quibbles with his views on the crises. The Socialist Party does not subscribe to underconsumptionist ideas either, that’s best left to the ICC or SWP.Where the difference is more in terms of political ideas, Kliman is a founder of the Marxist-Humanist Initiative which seems to have some funny ideas.

[Author]

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