Dave B
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I mentioned Dr Wolfgang Wodarg earlier and provided a youtube from him and provided what was being said about him eg anti Semitism etc
I would like to see the evidence for that
it is possible he hasn’t been very clever when it comes to places his views are going onto.
I really don’t know; they do do this to people they don’t like like Assange.
he has spent a longtime in the German SDP and exposed the swineflu hoax of 2009/10
for Scottish Alan
As I mentioned Scotland earlier
There are still some authentic journalist around obviously not at the BBC.
They tend to work for some of these minor papers and not closely monitored tend yo go off script.
Eg at the Scottish Herald.
So it can be worth while looking at them sometimes.
….There is also disquiet among some public health professionals that the sheer severity of the lockdown measures, designed to curtail the virus and bring Covid fatalities under 20,000, will precipitate an excess of deaths from other causes.
Modelling suggests at least 5,700 – but maybe far more – will die from side effects of this strategy.
One Scotland-based expert, who has a background in flu pandemic planning for the NHS, said mass testing and contact tracing should have been introduced at a much earlier stage but that the apparent lethality of the virus globally owes much to the record numbers of elderly and sick people around the world who were “living on borrowed time as a result of modern medicines that extend their lives and reduce symptoms, but make them vulnerable to a novel zoonotic infection like this one”.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, they added: “I believe we will have to pay a high price for this lockdown in terms of the backlog of clinical problems put on hold by GPs and hospitals; a rise in gender based violence; a return to abuse of children on the at-risk register who should be in school; a rise in mental health problems induced by isolation that will be most prevalent in those without access to space and outdoor greenery; a loss of jobs, particularly for the low paid; and the demise of businesses and even industries.
“There is no doubt in my mind that this attempt to control a pandemic, for which planning was woefully inadequate from the beginning, will increase social inequalities in health.”
I object to this automatic sneering contempt for all conspiracy theories,
As I find a lot of problem solving scientists, good computer programmers and engineers who work in the real world do.
It is properly called hypothesis testing; as long as it is logical and disprovable it is OK.
Often the answers to big head banging problems are the least expected and can be quite incredible.
All it requires is for the premises to be ‘logical’.
In the one Adam gave , which I don’t agree with at the moment; are the capitalist class a bunch of bastards and would some of them like to atomise us and keep us in a north Korean kind of police state and total mind control.
It is a bit too much of an extreme extrapolation of Chomsky material on the “bewildered herd” stuff for me.
But it is written down there in theoretical advice for the ruling class and well read by its technocrats eg Walter Lipmann.
It is amazing that a lot of the early people to push back on the civil liberties came from the libertarian right wing.
And you end up finding the real “Anarchists” in the Spectator ,Telegraph and the Mail on Sunday!
But I appreciate that Adam doesn’t read that kind of stuff.
I actually think at the moment this has been caused a very complex set of affects and not consciously coordinated.
As is often the case, taken for example from Engelist theory, you can have a powder keg of material conditions and then a spark.
We obviously must start off by blaming capitalist so I think the following could be something to begin with perhaps as a contributing factor.
We can be incredibly obtuse here; so to reiterate this is definitely not a sole cause!
Covid-19: Check the Source of your Information! War against… Corruption?
…..Introduction
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not a great fan of social media, blogs or controversy on the Internet; nor am I a journalist, at least not by profession.
I am a doctor……….
It is on the GlobalResearch site.
Just please spare me the stuff about it being a site for paedophiles, flat earthers and Christian creationists.
It is very patchy in content but you can get very good articles; you just patience and intelligence to find them.
I found one there on RT-PCR by someone who knew how it worked !
I haven’t read it today and by the way they were very slow to pick up on the covid hoax stuff and were parroting the BBC amd mainstream media line for sometime.
There also this;is of more “conspiracy theory type stuff” on the same site from 21<sup>st</sup> of April taken from offguardian
Coronavirus Lockdown and What You Are Not Being Told
I am not sure what it is with people maybe I am just used to ploughing through stuff and just picking out the material that intrigues me as I have to do it as part of my job all the time.
There are yet more falsehoods in some of the above posts but I can’t be bothered with fighting with people whose sole source and internet links are the BBC and the Guardian.
I have got quite interested in this epidemiology thing now and have read about 50 scientific papers written by the big boys.
It is like a test, if you can follow them you have a good grasp of the subject.
It is a bit weird really as it is or has been pretty much an observational, predictive but non interventionist science I suppose like astronomy.
It is not like chemistry and engineering where we can make stuff happen.
The Swedes were perfectly correct when they said it is not us that are carrying out an experiment it is you.
The non Lockdown Belarus data is going to be interesting I think ; they are probably early on and seem to be doing a lot of testing so it is not quite the banana republic as I expected even though the president is a bit of a nutter I think.
And The Russians are doing a lot and there data looks good as in matching ; I need to look at it properly later.
I am going to have to take this because I do have serious PSTD.
I am scared panicked and hysterically really anxious about what your lockdown is going to do.
85 % of Swedish population live in urban areas.
Norway is different I believe
still Stockholme is not as densely populated as London etc
Sweden is probably closer to Scotland in that respect and in fact I think there profile are quite similar although I have not closely looked at them.
So Scotland had a lockdown that made no difference then ?
low population density is like geographical lockdown and flattening of the curve.
and stretching it out
but that clearly hasn’t happened in Sweden
they have started peaked and started crashing down several days ago.
it looks like this covid has a very high R0 ,
Ie it spreads a lot quicker than anybody previously thought and there was more of it about earlier on than anybody thought.
the imperial team conceded this.
theory used to be that that means it was too late for lockdown to work anyway.
they should have locked all the vulnerable away and had measles parties for the under 60’s with no underlying medical conditions.
This is what the ONS said recently ; you can pick your own argument out of that.
…..When looking at the change in total deaths registered by place of occurrence between Week 11 (when the first COVID-19 deaths were registered) and Week 15, we see that the number of deaths in care homes has doubled from 2,471 deaths to 4,927 (99.4%). There has also been a 72.4% increase (4,975 deaths to 8,578) in deaths occurring in hospitals, and 51.1% increase in deaths occurring in private homes (2,725 deaths to 4,117).
When looking in more detail at the large increase in care home deaths we can see that in Week 11, care home deaths made up 22.4% of all deaths, which has risen to 26.6% of all deaths in Week 15. In Week 15, 16.8% (826 deaths) of all deaths occurring in care homes involved COVID-19. This is lower than the 57.8% of hospital deaths (4,957) that involved COVID-19, but higher than the 8.0% (330 deaths) that occurred in private homes……
You are going to find yourself between a rock and a hard place if you going to start ramping up and finding fake covid deaths all over the place.
As it will just make the swedish experiment look more and more successful.
I am absolutely sure there is going to be a second wave of lockdown deaths that will of course be immediately attributed to undiagnosed covid deaths.
The truth will only come out a lot later.
There was talk recently in a financial times article of a government denied number of 150,000,
Anyway there is this as food for death.
….Prof Dening said there could be a number of reasons for what appears to be a sharp increase in deaths in the community that are not known to be due to Covid-19.
He explained: “These include people not feeling able to attend their GP surgeries, call an ambulance or attend A&E as they may have done in the past.
“Therefore, some serious conditions may present too late for effective treatment.
“Concern has been expressed by doctors working in children’s emergency care that they are not currently seeing the usual range of childhood emergencies.”
Linda Bauld, professor of public health at the University of Edinburgh, said some people have not been able to get appointments, or are told to arrange a virtual GP appointment and think “I am not going to bother”.
– What are people with potentially fatal conditions doing?
Prof Dening said: “Another possibility is that some people with serious conditions, like cancer or chronic kidney disease, are either unable or unwilling to attend hospital on the usual regular basis, so their treatment regimes may lapse.
“Managing conditions like unstable diabetes will be much harder remotely than with face-to-face attention.
“Or there may be people who would have been referred to specialists for assessment of potentially serious conditions, where there is now a delay in offering appointments or indeed clinics may simply have been cancelled.”
Prof Bauld explained that some people may have had a procedure that they need delayed, resulting in unintended consequences.
Concern has been expressed by doctors working in children’s emergency care that they are not currently seeing the usual range of childhood emergencies
Professor Tom Dening
– Could the lockdown lifestyle itself be harming health?
Prof Dening said the lockdown itself may be breeding unhealthy behaviour.
He told PA: “Some people confined to their homes are likely to be drinking and smoking more, or eating less healthily, and this may also contribute to health problems, including accidents, around the home.”
– What do the numbers say about the deaths?
Of the 16,387 deaths registered in England and Wales during the week ending 3 April, around a fifth (3,475) mentioned “novel coronavirus”.
But the ONS said there were 6,082 more deaths during that week compared to the five-year average, which raises questions about the reasons behind the remaining two and a half thousand additional deaths.
Professor Maureen Baker, former Chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP), said there could be a number of explanations.
“Data from previous pandemics of the 20th century have shown that health pandemics tend to lead to a rise in all-cause mortality,” she added.
“There could be greater difficulty for people with non-Covid symptoms to currently get access to hospital services, or not wanting to access them due to the Covid risk.
“It might be the case that people with emergency symptoms – for instance, chest pain, abdominal pain, severe headache – are not consulting a doctor as early as they normally would with such symptoms.”
I am out and about as I am a critical worker.
I am trying to keep this no personal and polite.
comparable to seasonal Flu?
https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/16/watch-perspectives-on-the-pandemic-3/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwPqmLoZA4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7v2F3usNVA
Note these highly reputable scientist are calm , excuse the bad science of others, give an opinion on the Swedish option, comparisons to seasonal flu, talk about the herd immunity, unnecessary panic ; clearly care a lot about the disadvantaged and ill and are plainly not fascist Malthusians.
lies, lies and more lies
Denmark , finalnd and Norway have populations half that of Sweden
in a interview in English
Why lockdowns are the wrong policy – Swedish expert Prof. Johan Giesecke
it was explained why Norway was doing better than Sweden.
they have much smaller care homes for the elderly due I think to the much more scattered and lower density of population
Sweden had problem
with mass outbreaks in care homeThe health agency believed that 5-10% of the population in Stockholm County were carrying the virus on 9 April.<sup id=”cite_ref-mellan5och10_37-0″ class=”reference”>[35]</sup> In mid-April, it was reported that out of the approximately 1300 people who had died after having caught the virus, one third had been living at nursing homes. The figure differed between the regions. In Stockholm, the city most affected by the pandemic, half of the deaths had been residents in one of its many nursing homes.<sup id=”cite_ref-tredjedel_38-0″ class=”reference”>[36]</sup> The Health Agency saw the spread at the homes as their biggest concern as of then, but “not as a failure of our overall strategy, but as a failure of our way to protect the elderly”.<sup id=”cite_ref-39″ class=”reference”>[37]</sup><sup id=”cite_ref-40″ class=”reference”>[38]</sup>. The situation led to the Health and Social Care Inspectorate to begin carrying out controls at the homes.<sup id=”cite_ref-tredjedel_38-1″ class=”reference”>[36]</sup>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Sweden
https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/
Week 1-15 2020 = 184,960
Week 1-15 2018 = 187, 780
I think there is a post with links still waiting?
As far as I understand it ONS are already saying 2020 deaths are at 20 year high, and this is still the beginning of it
no that is not true either
so far this year it is still slightly below 2018 I think
week 1 to week 15 for both
it was very high weekly total for a week in april ; that is probably what is meant.
reports?????
or data
Sweden has a much higher testing rate than the UK , you would expect them to have more reliable data
Sweden Latest estimate: 9.35 per thousand people; 94,600 in total (as of 19 April 2020).
Latest estimate: 5.91 per thousand people; 397,670 in total (as of 21 April 2020).
Why are you falsifying data?
The per million with covid death rate for Sweden is 174
And it has peaked and is descending for Sweden rapidly
It is about 17000/66.7 = 255 for the UK
the following ranking table is afew days old;
<td width=”23%”>
<td width=”20%”>Deaths
<td width=”24%”>population
<td width=”32%”>Deaths per million
<td width=”23%”>Belgium
<td width=”20%”>5,453
<td width=”24%”>11.42
<td width=”32%”>477.41
<td width=”23%”>Spain
<td width=”20%”>20,639
<td width=”24%”>46.72
<td width=”32%”>441.72
<td width=”23%”>Italy
<td width=”20%”>23,227
<td width=”24%”>60.43
<td width=”32%”>384.35
<td width=”23%”>France
<td width=”20%”>19,323
<td width=”24%”>66.99
<td width=”32%”>288.46
<td width=”23%”>United Kingdom
<td width=”20%”>15,498
<td width=”24%”>66.49
<td width=”32%”>233.09
<td width=”23%”>Netherlands
<td width=”20%”>3,601
<td width=”24%”>17.23
<td width=”32%”>208.98
<td width=”23%”>Switzerland
<td width=”20%”>1,368
<td width=”24%”>8.52
<td width=”32%”>160.63
<td width=”23%”>Sweden
<td width=”20%”>1,511
<td width=”24%”>10.18
<td width=”32%”>148.38
<td width=”23%”>United States
<td width=”20%”>39,025
<td width=”24%”>327.17
<td width=”32%”>119.28
<td width=”23%”>Ireland
<td width=”20%”>571
<td width=”24%”>4.85
<td width=”32%”>117.65
<td width=”23%”>Portugal
<td width=”20%”>687
<td width=”24%”>10.28
<td width=”32%”>66.82
<td width=”23%”>Iran
<td width=”20%”>5,031
<td width=”24%”>81.8
<td width=”32%”>61.5
<td width=”23%”>Denmark
<td width=”20%”>346
<td width=”24%”>5.8
<td width=”32%”>59.68
Just gone to the Menshevik pile of books that I have read although sometime ago.
I think the best that are not anti Menshevik are
The Mensheviks After October by Brovkin.
He keeps writing good books on the Russian revolution.
There is
The Soviet Revolution by the left Menshevik Raphael Abramovitch
Which is mostly a criticism of the Bolshevik revolution by a Menshevik
Half of it is an attack on Stalinism and thus not that interesting.
An important book if not a easy read is.
The Origins of Bolshevism by Theodore Dan
He became the “Leader” of the exiled
Mensheviks by the 1930’s
There was ;
From the Other Shore by Andre Liebich
Just found a book review from New York Times !
”From the Other Shore” raises the question of what would have happened if the Mensheviks had prevailed in 1917. Would they have gone the route of the Bolsheviks, laying the groundwork for the repressive totalitarianism to follow? Or would they have found another path — committing themselves to a radical transformation of Russian society while at the same time respecting (as far as possible in difficult circumstances) the political liberties of their opponents? If we could answer that question, we would be better able to untangle Marxism from Leninism, Leninism from Stalinism, and assign to or absolve each of its share of responsibility for the gulag.
Although Liebich identifies closely with Martov’s group, he avoids the temptation of reading back into its history an early and absolute division from the Bolsheviks. Rather, he sees a ”broad continuum” linking the two factions until the Revolution, nothwithstanding their disputes. Mensheviks and Bolsheviks were, after all, at least technically members of the same party until 1912. Mensheviks and Bolsheviks alike were intimately acquainted with the inside of the Czar’s prisons and penal camps (and nothing works quite as effectively as a common enemy to encourage unity). In 1914 Menshevik and Bolshevik delegates to the Duma, the Russian parliament, stood together in opposing the war — a courageous decision, and something that distinguished both groups from most of their western European comrades. It was thus not surprising that factional lines proved permeable. Trotsky was not the only Bolshevik leader with a Menshevik past, and some Menshevik leaders were former Bolsheviks.
Faced after November 1917 with the stark choice of supporting the new Soviet Government or siding with the counterrevolutionaries, the Mensheviks chose the role of loyal opposition. The Bolsheviks had no use for opposition, loyal or otherwise, but their crackdown on the Mensheviks over the next few years was gradual and inconsistent. All the important Menshevik leaders except Martov were eventually imprisoned, but, as Liebich notes, they were treated quite leniently by later standards: they maintained their political organization within prison and ”guards were told to go away when they intruded on a Menshevik meeting.” By 1922, however, most of the Menshevik leaders had been forced to leave Russia. Martov died abroad in 1923, but others kept the Menshevik cause alive in exile — in Germany until the rise of Hitler, then in France until the Nazi occupation and finally in New York.
In time, the dimensions of the totalitarian terror in their former homeland became apparent. Although information from within the Soviet Union was quite limited, the Mensheviks had the advantage of knowing many of the principal actors personally. (Andrei Vyshinsky, the chief prosecutor during the Moscow show trials in the 1930’s, was a former Menshevik; there were grim jokes in exile circles that his persecution of the old Bolsheviks represented the Mensheviks’ revenge on those who had driven them from Russia.) Some of the Mensheviks, like David Dallin, eventually secured reputations among the leading Kremlinologists of their generation. Ironically, the last surviving Menshevik, Boris Sapir, died in December 1989, on the eve of the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Liebich asks us to see the Mensheviks as something more than political losers. They stand, he writes, ”at the very heart of the crisis of Marxism.” Our judgment of them as political actors and thinkers — as a possible alternative leadership for a revolutionary Russia — can help determine whether Marxism has any legitimate claim as a serious and honorable political tradition or deserves nothing better than its current consignment to the dustbin of history.
The Mensheviks Edited; Leopold Haimson
Includes stuff written by old post 1930 mensheviks.
Apparently there is loads of stuff in German
I can discuss it,
