Brian
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ALB wrote:jondwhite wrote:Are the SPGB in particular being asked by the CPB and the SWP? If they'd rather us stand outside and shout while Lib-Lab-Con get a free rein – than go in and verbally attack them on the same platform then no thanks
Yes, our election agent in Wales (Brian) was phoned personally by Robert Griffiths, the General Secretary of the CPB and lead candidate on the No2EU list in Wales, and a representative of the SWP attended the Swansea Branch meeting on Monday with the same end in view. I'm sure Brian will be able to provide more details.
What a farce and political posturing by the CPB and SWP under the front of Unite Against Fascism Wales who suggested that the BNP and the Britain First were on a pre=recording husting broadcast by BBC Wales TV scheduled for today 14/5/14. And they wanted to know if we would join them in denying them a platform. It was explained to the representative of the SWP Gary Owen at the Swansea Branch meeting there was no chance we would let such a golden opportunity to challenge the obnoxious and divisive message(s) from either the CPB, SWP, BNP and Britain First on TV.However, as it turned out there was no hustings but studio interviews for all the minor parties, and despite the demonstration outside by Unite Against Fascism Wales the No2TheEu lead candidate Robert Griffiths of the CPB put their position. Like I said farcical posturing.
My bit on BBC Radio Wales around 2.51 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043njyl
I've accepted two invites from the media. First one is a studio interview on BBC Radio Wales tomorrow from 12.45 to 12.50 and the other one is a hustings on Radio Cardiff on Friday the 16th from 1pm to 2pm.
Do we ever learn from the many books and articles written on the subject and dangers of 'information overload'? We are assuming that all enquiries are by default a request for substantial information on the party case. And hence arrived at the false conclusion one fit suits all, and in the process forgotten that yes some people are bookworms and yes some people are not that much interested in long tracts of political debate.If its designed for tablets and kindle that does offset the dangers of information overload to a certain extent. On the other hand if its sent out by post its likely to be binned or forgotten.
I think 47 pages is about the right amount to swamp any new enquirer with just too much information and prove to be a turn-off rather than a turn-on. In fact it appears to be an exercise in talking at the working class rather than talking with them.
Its Michael Albert's of Parecon vision of a political party. Plenty of bs with little substance and seeking to impress those who seem to think a nice kind of capitalism is possible. Ugh!
jpodcaster wrote:TV broadcast? When is it being shown? As a former Green Party member I found their election broadcast last night a bit cringeworthy to be honest …Out of interest what would you consider a success in terms of % vote for the SPGB in the SE and Wales? I know its more about contacts and raising awareness but genuinely interested in what you would consider a 'breakthrough'?A "breakthrough" in terms of votes is not even part of this election campaign strategy. Nevertheless, this election campaign is a breakthrough in respect of reaching a far wider audience than anything we have done previously. How many responses we achieve in terms of: internet clicks; postal enquiries; attendance at meetings; etc, only time will tell.However, we are aware from past experience with the election campaigns we've run in the North East and elsewhere that once you hit the election trail you have to stick with it and sustain our efforts. Hence, our current focus on contesting elections in London.Hopefully, the comrades in Wales will be the next to apply this strategy by contesting some of the seats in the Welsh Government elections and also some local elections where our limited resources are not stretched to the extent of unsustainability.
You seemed to have ticked all the boxes Vin. Just a word of caution try not to swamp the viewer with too much information which triggers 'close down'. And defeats the object of the exercise. Imho your list above contains at least 4 or 5 separate short vids rather than have one full blaster burning up the nuerons.
Ed wrote:No worries mate. I'm just surprised nobody else thought to point that out I'm all for keeping discussion ongoing with them. Our public debates have been of mixed success. I'd only suggest doing them again if we could get get one where someone actually promoted TZM rather than positive money or the 5 star party. However we have made good contacts with some of their individual supporters through those meetings.You've spent much more time studying their theory than I have. Do they have a plan? I know they've made some suggestions in their films, sort of lifestyle choices rather than anything concrete and some suggestion that this could be made to work through reforms. But do they have anything definite that they actually advocate or is it more of a case of them saying "we don't know yet"?The only intention of PJ – its not a plan – is for a majority to apply the same kinda pressure as the Civil Rights Movement in the US but not with the civil disobedience part, more like you say a change of lifestyle and hopefully less dependency on wage slavery. In short, if you can get off the grid, do it and the more people who do it the quicker capitalism will collapse! And by collapse PJ means exactly like us – withdrawal of majority support. The other original intention of PJ was also to model the TZM structure on CRM. Neither intention have seemed to bear any fruit for I've had no news on people going off the grid and the present structure of TZM is a shambles and don't resemble CRM in any shape or form. There are many reasons for the shambles with the structure but the main one is that instead of letting the national chapters sort it out for themselves their International Chapter Coordinators thought they knew what was best for the good of the movement.However, despite PJ working more behind closed doors rather than up front with the films going by the facebook figures their 'social attraction' seems real enough, so their 'train of thought' is also seemingly gaining momentum.But a word of caution for the people they are attracting is constantly in a state of flux. Originally they attracted the conspiracy theorists, then it was the collapse theorists, presently its a split between the currency cranks and the 'need for a new party' crowd. Which means I'm assuming here that the TZM 'train of thought' is the flavour of the month for those who are looking for a home with their particular ideal or reform necessary on the so called transition they happen to envisage.What I have noticed is that in the last couple of years TZM seemed to have delved more into the revolutionary process and come to the conclusion (like us) that the next revolution is going to be different from all other revolutionary processes. This realisation has left them with a major dilemma in regards to extending their analysis of capitalism, hence the challenge in the OP. How they get out of this dillemma depends on how willing are they are to ditch their excess baggage on there being no need to mount a political challenge, despite the fact that PJ did announce in June 2012 TZM were like the CRM involved in the class struggle! Sadly, despite my best efforts, the implications for that remark hardly registered in TZM circles.So in answer to your question of do they have anything definite or is it "we don't know yet": they are waiting for the results of the challenge before they decide how to develop their analysis further. But by default that does not include a political challenge, although it may well include more mention of the class struggle. So yes they don't know yet.
gnome wrote:Brian wrote:You are correct Ed. Thats what I get for jumping to conclusions.It's also what you get for not reading the earlier posts in any particular thread. I made precisely the same point as Ed, only more succintly, in #3 of this thread.
Which I will most certainly use in my response. Thanks Dave.
Ed wrote:But they have specifically said that they do not want essays in this challenge related to how to achieve their goals. They are asking people to refute that a resource based economy can actually work.It would be like us issueing a challenege to people to put forward an argument for "why socialism could not work" and recieving a response saying that socialism would work but using the electoral system is impossible. The response is irrelevant to the hypothetical question.So by all means write to them you don't need a challenge for that, but don't enter it in to this specific competition. It will be a waste of your time and theirs, they've made that clear.You are correct Ed. Thats what I get for jumping to conclusions. Thanks for that and also for pointing out its an opportunity to keep the dialogue going by not entering the challenge but writting directly to the Lecture team to gain a response on the question of a political challenge.Hopefully, their response will at the very least confirm and clarify the reasons why they have decided that this particular revolutionary process remains undetermined.
I am seriously thinking of taking up this challenge, albeit after the euro elections are out of the way – and obviously as an individual socialist.. Ever since my involvement with them I've always pointed out that TZM as a social movement do not represent an organised political challenge for the transformation of capitalism. Yes Its full of complaining, absolutely bursting with criticism and their condemnation of capitalism is relentless, and very encouraging. But unfortunately when it comes to actually challenging capitalism it fails miserably. And that's its fault line and inevitable cul de sac. I'll never forget on my occasional foray's on the outdoor platform with Harry Young he always used to say before I mounted the steps ' Its not what they say its what they do which determines a working class party'.However, in all honesty I never thought TZM would last this long but since PJ has taken a step back from being the focal point of the movement it seems its on auto-drive by fulfilling an educational function which we are unable to tap into. Which despite the jargon of PJ is continuing to gain momentum, going by the numbers it attracting to facebook.When I have time I'll dig out my polemics and other research I have on them.
ALB wrote:Apparently, this new party, based in Petersfield in Hampshire, will be standing in the South East Region:http://yourvoiceparty.org.uk/Can't work out what they stand for if anything. Anybody know?It looks like they are trying to put into practice what Steve Coleman is advocating. Direct democracy through the internet.
