Bijou Drains
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Unfortunately TN still sees war as a comic strip of heroes and villans, rather than being the product of a historical process.
The fact that his grandparents took part in the 2nd World War, is not really such a great surprise.
My Dad was in the war as were three of my uncles and my father in law. My Uncle Joe was at the last day of Dunkirk, the first day of D Day and was also at Arnhem and my father died later in life because of the events of his time in the RAF. Sadly it wasn’t the great heroic episode portrayed by The History Channel or Discovery Channel that TN obviously uses as his source of historic fact.
These people never got over the experience of what they saw, for many of them it was only very late in life that they could start to talk about the horror and the fear.
The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of those involved in the War in Europe (and very probably TN’s Grandparents) were not either fighting for the Nazis or fighting against them. The vast majority on both sides were fighting because they had to, as conscripts.
TN’s idea that the German was some kind of solid block of Nazi support is risible. The November German General Election had Nazi support at 33% of an 80% turn out, so 26% of the German population voted for the Nazis, whereas the SDP and the KDP had received 37% of the votes in that election. Did over 13 million people transform into Nazis in just 6 years? The history of the German anti Nazi resistance is not well known, but it was substantial.
TN’s comic book history sees the German people (and the Ukrainian People now) as “Nazis to be turned into fertilizer” the reality is very different, however the only winners in this exercise is a members of the capitialists class who happen to be on the winning side.
The surviving workers who risked their lives in this current conflict will however only get a couple of bonny ribbon, a nice parade and if they’re lucky a couple of cheap medals.
TN – “No, they were rabid dogs that needed putting down. My grandparents obliged them”
So his grandparents were in the SS. Interesting that he has followed his Grandparents’ political lineage.
The fact that some contributors to this forum (and others) do so through pseudonyms is generally due to the fact that they do not want to have the real names put on the internet due to possible difficulties that may involve.
The legislation on online guidance on harassment states that “For harassment to be committed, there must have been a clear ‘course of conduct’. That is, two or more related occurrences. The messages do not necessarily have to be violent in nature, but would need to have caused some alarm or distress.”
I would say that putting people’s real names on the internet would cause alarm or distress to someone who had clearly used a pseudonym so as not to put their name on the internet. This is not the first time that this behaviour has occured and it would be reasonable, considering the previous nature of the postings, that the intention of posting those names was to cause alarm and or distress (mens rea and actus reus)
Just a thought
ALB said “ To act as a safety deposit box, keeping safe money that people don’t want to use for the time being, and to create new money. Apparently, for him, the two are unconnected.”
That then also begs the question why are the two always related. If I don’t need to “borrow” money through deposits in order to lend, why would I bother with all of the palaver of offering deposit services (which on the face of it doesn’t really make much money. Why not just do lending on its own and if you can just create money by lending it, why doesn’t everyone.
ALB wrote “ this thread has become completely toxic descending into an exchange of insults that is a discredit to our website.”
Actually ALB, that’s fair comment. I will attempt to avoid getting drawn into TN’s noxious world. Mea culpa.
My previous post must have been being written when you made your post.
In reflection Socialists should try and avoid being distracted away the political arguments into trivialisation.
You’ve guessed it True Nazi, Alan has been in deep cover as a member of the SPGB for years, infiltrating the organisation to find out what we are doing and how we do it and getting paid squillions to do.
CIA might have saved a few quid by going on line or just visiting our meetings and asking for copies of all of our meetings’ minutes including the conference, the executive and sub committees, as we don’t have any secret meetings and all meetings are open to the public, but that’s the yanks for you, never been very good with their cash.
Just to clear up any other conspiracy theories that are floating about in your febrile imagination, I am indeed the leader of the Lizard people and have regular meetings with the Duke of Edinburgh (he’s not actually dead, he is feeding of the blood of new born babies and exists in a zombie like form whilst living in a council house just outside of Halifax). Robbo is actually a shape shifting alien and lives in Malaga accompanied by the corpse of the late entertainer Matt Munroe (Robbo can often be found late at night serenading Matt’s corpse with his rendition of Born Free). ALB (not his real name) has been masquerading and a Marxist economics expert following the unfortunate incident where he killed his children’s nanny, whilst attempting to actually kill his wife (that’s right I can reveal that ALB is none other than Lord Lucan) and Shergar has been secretly stabled in the cellar of 52 Clapham High Street since February 1983 (if the IRA are reading this, you owe us a fortune in hay)
Only a genius like you, True Nazi, would have been able to penetrate our deep secrets. Still you’ll never find out where the crypt of Mary Magdalene is, or where the Holy Grail is (it’s behind the photocopier hidden in some old copies of the Socialist Standard)
In using the “Argumentum ad Hitlerium” card you’ve actually made the fool out of yourself.
The fallacy you describe only applies to superficial similarities to the views/actions of Hitler. In the case I cited, you offered support to ideas which were fundamental to Hitler’s ideology, i.e. Lebensraum and German Irredentism. The analogy I made between Hitler’s logic (and by extension yours) and the logic that Putin has used to justify his war, is anything but trivial. Another strong similarity between Nazism and your views is your celebration and manifest glee at the thought of human beings being turned into fertiliser, is that another example of Argumentum ad Hitlerum? I think not.
What is arguably a more vaild demonstration of “Argumentum ad Hitlerum” is however your ongoing assertion that the regime in the Ukraine is a “Nazi Regime”, which is curious, given that Zelensky is Jewish.
I think you need to go back to your “Logic for Dummies” book and read it rather than just looking at the pretty pictures.
True Nazi’s explanation of why he support’s statements made by Hitler is as weak as piss.
Having had 4 weeks nearly to contemplate his response all he has come up with is “If Hitler made sounds consistent with that, what of it?”
He then goes on to make an analogy which harks back to the “rape of Belgium” argument to support making war. That argument, didn’t hold water in 1914 and it doesn’t hold water now.
It also doesn’t distract that True Nazi supported EXACTLY the same argument Hitler did to explain his annexation of the Sudetenland, to support Putin’s annexation of the Donbas. That is that the annexation was necessary to maintain peace and to stop the oppression of elements of the population of those areas. Both Putin and Hitler used this argument as a cloak for their real war aims, territorial expansion, military/strategic advantage and conquest of resources (in Hitler’s case the Czech arms industry and other industrial resources and in Putin’s case the mineral and industrial resources of the Donbas)
I’m afraid, True Nazi, if you walk like a Nazi, swim like a Nazi and quack like a Nazi, the chances are you’re a Nazi. You’ve passed the duck test with flying colours.
True Nazi states- “ Resisting such a force is one’s duty. Unless, of course, you’re physically unable or a coward.”
If True Nazi is implying that his lack of action is on the basis of his physical inability, then his ongoing slurs against people who may have disabilities is even more jaw droppingly crass.
I didn’t say Hitlerian, I said you followed the logic that Hitler did to justify the annexation of the Sudetenland. That is, the logic of Nationalism and capitalist expansionism. You stated that you agreed with that logic, with those exact words.
If it’s sauce for Hitler’s goose, then it’s sauce for Putin (and your’s) gander.
Did you agree with Hitler’s words or did you not? The record shows you did.
True cowardly Nazi says re me “I suspect he’s a juvenile still in his teens‘
Sadly, and as usual, our fascist friend is wrong.
However, we can add ageism to homophobia and ableism to the list. Also working on the fact that he supports the speeches of Hitler we can probably add antisemitism, racism and several other forms of prejudice as well.
He’s certainly consistent in his presentation.
“And are you going to “man up” about the fact that you supported Hitler’s logic for the annexation of the Sudetenland? True Nazi”
Lol. I did no such thing.
As you well know, I susbtituted the words Czechoslovakia with Ukraine in one of Hitler’s speeches about the Sudentenland, and told you (the guy who is never fooled) that it was Putin. You then replied that you supported the speech fully.
