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moderator1 wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

moderator1 wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

As our Branch Secretary has now been indefinitely suspended from using Spintcom (with moderators citing issues from 2013, for god's sake). Can members of the IC or Spintcom/Forum moderators please explain to me how, with our Branch Secretary unable to use these crucial tools, our branch is going to function in the same way as other party branches? Is it the case that functions available to other branches will not now be available to our branch?

The suspension of Cde Vince Marraty from SPINTcom and SPopen will not affect the activities of the NERB Branch.  Other members of the Branch can still post on those lists and this forum is still open to all members of NERB.  In addition, on this forum the Branch has an allocated section to conduct its business.Not all Branches take advantage of the functions available on the lists or indeed on this forum.  Yet they still function by using other means of communication.  Its highly unlikely that Branch activity will be affected by the suspension of one of its members from the internal party lists.

Ah, really glad you agree with my viewpoint that SPINTcom and SPopen are largely an irrelevence, as much use as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition, as my old man used to say.

I did not imply no do I agree with the viewpoint that SPINTcom and SPopen are "largely an irrelevence".  In fact far from it for from my perspective the more medium available to individual party members the more choice they have on using the one most appropriate to their communication needs and skills.

I suppose, to some extent I can see your point, perhaps those who have limited face to face communication skills and choices, may make use of internet based communication. Personally I prefer talking to human beings and being able to read nuance and irony from their communication styles, however if a person has a problem with interpersonal communication (and I'm not impying that anyone using these tools necessarily has these difficulties) I suppose I can see their uses. I can see how it might save them from being lonely, isolated, friendless, I guess. I find it difficult to comment on these issues, I have a social life.

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moderator1 wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

As our Branch Secretary has now been indefinitely suspended from using Spintcom (with moderators citing issues from 2013, for god's sake). Can members of the IC or Spintcom/Forum moderators please explain to me how, with our Branch Secretary unable to use these crucial tools, our branch is going to function in the same way as other party branches? Is it the case that functions available to other branches will not now be available to our branch?

The suspension of Cde Vince Marraty from SPINTcom and SPopen will not affect the activities of the NERB Branch.  Other members of the Branch can still post on those lists and this forum is still open to all members of NERB.  In addition, on this forum the Branch has an allocated section to conduct its business.Not all Branches take advantage of the functions available on the lists or indeed on this forum.  Yet they still function by using other means of communication.  Its highly unlikely that Branch activity will be affected by the suspension of one of its members from the internal party lists.

Ah, really glad you agree with my viewpoint that SPINTcom and SPopen are largely an irrelevence, as much use as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition, as my old man used to say.

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I think any reasonable member or sympathiser can see the pedantic approach of moderators with regards to this matter. In my opinion they should hang there heads in shame at the way they have treated Cde Marratty. I for one will not be letting the matter rest.

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ALB wrote:

.It still leaves open the question of why some have authoritarian personalities. The way they were brought up?

Probably the most influential theory on the development of personality, and in my view the most well tested and applicable theory, is Attachment Theory (John Bowlby, et al) . It very much sits on the nurture side of the nature v nurture debate. (it is a big topic to cover on the forum and I wouldn't want to be accused of going off thread, given my geographical location, this appears to be a possibility) In terms of personality development, Mary Ainsworth developed the Ainsworth Strange Situation test which has been used to identify four main attachment types and personalties, of these I would argue that the three insecure attachments would tend to favour authoritarian relationships (either as the authoritarian or as the receiver of authoritarianism) and that this would be likely to impact on their political outlooks. There has been some study of this.This link should workhttps://apps.cla.umn.edu/directory/items/publication/304528.pdfGood news is that securely attached personalities generally constitute around 60–65% of the population. That shouldn't be read as saying that all Socialists have secure attachment patterns (clearly this is not the case!!!), and that those with insecure attachment patterns are likely to be fascists and unable to form socialist consciousness.

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I was listening to RTE on Friday and there was talk of the government intervening to ban the proposed strike by workers on the Luas tram system because it will interfere with the celebrations of the Easter Rising! Connolly would be proud, the government he helped to set up, with the Citizen's Army, intervening to ban a strike because it interferes with celebrations of his actions!!!

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Matt wrote:

Some more "Food for thought" ?https://theconversation.com/if-meat-could-talk-would-you-still-eat-it-54497

Yes I would still eat it, is the short answer.I hear they do fantastic pork chops at The restaurant at the End of the Universe

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jondwhite wrote:

CPGB-PCC Notes for Action, March 4 2016

Quote:

An apocryphal story has it that the Socialist Party of Great Britain, upon discovering that its membership had risen considerably in the last year, decided that there could not possibly be so many true socialists in the country and expelled a bunch of them. ..

typical Leninist, can't even manage a very good attempt at humour. Perhaps Jack Conrad should watch this and get an idea of how irony really workshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGh8gsjlAuQ

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Vin wrote:

Alan,apology accepted, we are still palsI have been informed that the IC doesn't have a problem with branch twitter accounts, so that bit has been cleared up. As for NERB I intend to suggest that at least two other members hold the password. So If I go doolally and tell a conservative party member he is a fuckin prick another member can immediately step in and apologise    

Like fuck we will

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Young Master Smeet wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

A person may be unsuitable for a particular kind of job, however the management of a twitter account is a fairly straightforward job that, in my opinion, is one that any technically competent member should be able to carry out.

There I strongly disagree, the social media orperators should at least have passed the speaker's test.  The operation of a social media account has possibilities for imediate and irrepasrable reputational harm.  

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

Just a very quick and very straight forward yes or no question YMS. Do you think that officers and committees of the party should be accountable for their actions?

Yes.  And I think they are.

Then taking into account all you have said, why is their no account (hence accountability) from the IC as to why Cde Marratty (who has passed his speaker and candidate test) was turned down from taking over the official twitter account. I'm not saying I agree with or disagree with the decision, just saying I have no information about the reasoning for that decision and as such cannot hold the IC accountable for the correctness or otherwise of that decision. Do you see my point?

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alanjjohnstone wrote:

Quote:

What i find extraordinary is a committee chose to find a member inappropriate for a job, not on technical ability but it seems on "political" grounds of unreliabilty that reflects badly on the member.Who has told you this? This is the first I have heard of it. Am I in a special section of the party without being informed but you have??

My apologies. No-one told me. I tried a guess  that there had to be a personal reason, one which was better not publicised as DJP post implied. I made an assumption. Perhaps i am totally wrong and my apologies to the IC and yourself for casting aspersions on both. As for not being above reproach, Vin, don't re-write history. I merely refer to repeated occasions over a very long time where you ended up in conflict with others in the party as a non-member, as an applicant to re-join and as a party member and forum contributor….You are not  the only sinner by all means but you were hardly a saint in the years i have been aware of you on these web-pages. If some members have concerns about offering you a position of responsibility, it is understandable if mistaken. (as an aside, i recently recall you started a thread and forgot you had, blaming it on prozac and booze, scarcely a recommendation, is it?) What we have to do is go beyond this atmosphere of friction and reach out for a settlement of it. I am sure many, including yourself, is fed up of this acrimony that has been going on for some years. I am simply trying to clear the air and pin-point what the problem is…and since as i said it is not simply the Twitter account but something that goes further back. We need to get it sorted once and for all. 

Genuinely wise words re the situaton re Vin and the IC. However it does not address of SPGB committes who appear to think that they are unaccountable ofr their actions. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in this particular case, I find tis extremely worrying for party democracy.

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Young Master Smeet wrote:

Quote:

To me if you are not reliable enough to be trusted with a twitter account, then you are not reliable enough to be trusted with a party membership, and I trust Vin's Socialist credibility.

That doesn't follow, a person may well be a member, and a sound socialist, but be unsuitable for a particular kind of job, that's why we have elections, nominations and appointments.

A person may be unsuitable for a particular kind of job, however the management of a twitter account is a fairly straightforward job that, in my opinion, is one that any technically competent member should be able to carry out. As you say we have elections, nominations and appointments of party posts. We also have explanations for the actions of committees and officers of the party, except curiously in this case. If Cde Marratty was deemed unsuitable for this role by the IC, why was he not told of the reasoning and more importantly why is the party as a whole not aware of that reasoning. The lack of this information makes the IC unaccountable to the party for their actions. Just a very quick and very straight forward yes or no question YMS. Do you think that officers and committees of the party should be accountable for their actions?

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Apologies if I was a little facetious, I understand that they were trials, etc. However 

alanjjohnstone wrote:

 What i find extraordinary is a committee chose to find a member inappropriate for a job, not on technical ability but it seems on "political" grounds of unreliability that reflects badly on the member. It seems the IC were reluctant to explain why to him and seek out a compromise,

This is the bit I am deeply concerned about. If, as seems to be the case, the IC think that Vin is "unreliable", then they have, as part of their role in a democratic Socialist movement to explain why that is. To me if you are not reliable enough to be trusted with a twitter account, then you are not reliable enough to be trusted with a party membership, and I trust Vin's Socialist credibility.The other, and to some extent the more worrying thing about this, is that it appears (and I can only say appears as I am an outsider looking in) that members of the SPGB (i.e.. the IC) think that it is ok that that there are members of the party who are safe to be members but not trusted to put forward the Socialist case in addition to this (the most worrying bit to me) is that they appear to think that as members of a committee of the Party are in a position to make that judgment alone, without recourse to the democratic processes within the party, without providing reasoning to make that decision and without providing records and minutes of that decision being made. Is this some new kind of Democratic Centralism, where the elite decide and the membership toe the line?I have known Vin as a Socialist for something near to 35 years, I have never had any doubt about his understanding of the Party case and of his commitment to the Socialist cause, I find it very concerning that others in the party should question this, or allow personal feelings and prejudices to become part of how we do business. This is the kind of crap you expect from the SWP, the Militant or the ICC

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alanjjohnstone wrote:

I have to 'fess upI'm warming the seats of two inactive world socialism blogs awaiting the resurgence of the WSM to take them overhttps://worldsocialism.wordpress.com/https://worldsocialists.wordpress.com/They were trials for a new blog that didn't see the light of day but one day may be useful and it stops other rival groups from grabbing the name. 

and did you have to have permission from the IC to start these blogs?

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Surely as a committee of the party the IC needs to be accountable. Can a member of the IC please account for their decision not to allow Comrade Marratty to operate the worldsocialism twitter account? It is a fairly straightforward question and it NEEDS to be answered. I find it worrying that, despite requests, the IC has not circulated any minutes that I am aware of which clarify their decision making process.If the IC cannot (or will not) answer this fairly straightforward question, then it has become unaccountable to the party and therefore is going beyond its remit and terms of reference and as such the members of that committee should either put this right or resign.As to what appears to me to be the bizarre idea that it should be a "person or ideally persons from the companion parties", forgive my ignorance but surely the SPGB is one of the companion parties and as such comrade Marratty as a member of the SPGB is perfectly placed to carry out this role.The inference I am making from this, and taking into account that members of the IC resigned from the AV committee when comrade Marratty was appointed, is that they hold personal opinions of comrade Marratty which are influencing their administration of their party role. Is it a case that the IC is creating a two tier membership, members who meet the IC's approval and members who do not?

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DJP wrote:

gnome wrote:

HO offers some first class accommodation…

So long as you bring ear plugs to block out the noise of the disco next door! 

To be honest, if I was staying overnight at HO, the people at the disco should probably be more worried about me being next door to them than I would be about them being next door to me!!!

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