Bijou Drains
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RJ7’s view flies against all of the evidence
There are hundreds, if not thousands of organisations in the UK alone that have more than 100 people organising themselves and working voluntarily already.
There are over 5,200 volunteer lifeboat crew volunteers, with an additional 4,000 shore crew an other volunteers, there are 850 Scottish Volunteer mountain rescue workers. Add to that the number of people in unions who carry out extra volunteer work, those in political parties of all hue, the numbers are astronomical. about 16.5% of the population are involved in some form of voluntary work, many on them in organisations that are over 100 strong and many that are entirely voluntary. That’s what is possible within the constraints of a capitalist society, what would be possible with those constraints removed?
Problem I face is that I have a rather uncommon first and second name combination, which ironically is shared with a guy in the US who used to be the CEO of a large Medical Insurance Company!
Might reconsider the possible trip to the US next year?
Following on from the point that CitizenoftheWorld makes, online versions of books on Law and Medicine (and many other disciplines) make perfect practical sense. A Law text book is out of date. effectively, before it is published (especially in Common Law Jurisdictions) and they are not cheap. Students are increasingly ripped off by publishing houses which quickly produce new editions which effectively make worthless the expensive editions they have just bought.
“but the majority of drugs we would not need in socialism, where life’s balance would be restored, plus humanity’s healthy relationship with nature.”
Sorry, TN, but that is a load of utopian horseshit.
For instance, would Socialism do away with the need for antibiotics, would suddenly deadly bacteria suddenly decide to live cooperatively with their hosts?
Would a whole host of genetic and similar conditions miraculously disappear, following the development of a society based on need not greed?
Would multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis and the many other immune system based problems suddenly be solved.
Would schizophrenia be gone from our society completely?I’ve got gout, heamochromatosis and some other conditions that are clearly linked to my family genetics, some of which link back to the Celtic peoples and to the Vikings. How will Socialism stop that?
Socialism will not be a universal panacea where all of our difficulties disappear. Families will fall out, relationships will go wrong, physical and mental illnesses will still arise, perhaps not due to the strains of surviving in a crazy economic system, but other issues will arise. Children will be killed in car accidents, or due to childhood illnesses and families will bereft through grief in socialism, some people will continue to be anti social arseholes in a socialist society, people will get drunk and obnoxious and whether you like it or not, those who enjoy football, cricket or even boxing, will continue to do so because it is what they enjoy and it is their right to do so.
When professed socialists do this “in the future there will be no need for ………..” “In socialism everyone will love each other and live on complete harmony”, it does the cause of socialism no good. This is because the general public look at that and in a perfectly reasonable way, think, that’s a load of bollocks.
Our argument is that we need to create a society where what was previously private property, i.e the means of production and distribution are commonly held, that goods and services will be produced on the basis of “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” and that the creation and administration of that society will be done on and in the interests of the vast majority. That’s it, we are not in a position to decide what that majority of people decide in the future. Will they decide to have prisons, football matches, Christmas celebrations, golf courses or Elvis impersonator? I don’t know. How will the majority decide how to deal with anti social arseholes, I don’t know either, and neither does anyone else. We may hazard a guess, but that’s as far as we can go.
I would also clarify that by use of the term private property, I do not mean personal property. In socialism people will still own their own personal property, clothes, lap tops, homes, toothbrushes, lawn mowers, fondue sets, books, etc.
The £100,000 they borrow from the Central Bank needs to be repaid, they have gained an asset of £100,000 but they also have a liability of £100,000. They have created nothing out of thin air. If they could create money from thin air they wouldn’t need to borrow from the Central Bank!
ALB – “Apparently this thread has been noticed on the Leftist Trainspotters Facebook page (yes, there is one). A Leninist makes the following sarcastic comment:
“An exciting run down of the SPGB’s byelection campaign in Islington.
As Lenin once said, ‘Hand a few leaflets out and hope for the best.’”As if Leninists didn’t do that.”
It appears that Leninists are as skilled in the world of humour as they are to the work of Socialism
Thanks ALB, good point, well made, however all of the Labourites I know have gone well and truly to ground! I will continue to try and get one to break cover as a preference to a Tory, but I am not optimistic.
Robbo, it’s a kind of sandwich see the link below:
It seems like we’ve all been thinking along similar ideas.
The remains of North East Branch of the SPGB are in the process of organising a weekend for the Durham Miners’ Gala for 2025. If anyone hasn’t been to the Gala before it is a remarkable day. There were more than 200,000 people there this year, and it was absolutely pissing down. Given a better day it might have been 1/4 of a million. It has been said to be the biggest trades union gathering in Western Europe.
In my view growing interest in our point of view is not going to take place through having one particular way of spreading ideas, but by having lots of different ways of making contact with the Working Class. With some socialist using the internet may be the best way for them, for others giving out leaflets. So for example having set, face to face meetings does not mean we can’t also use on line propaganda meetings.
The plan for Durham (as it stands) is to hire a couple of AirBn houses in the Durham City area (rail and road connections for Durham City are very good). Gather for the Friday night before the Gala with a bit of a social night for comrades and sympathisers and get to the racecourse field for a bout 9.30am. We will book a pitch (which are very busy and very political) whilst also publicising a Saturday evening debate in Durham City Centre. It is a very busy day, believe me.
We can put out thousands of leaflets for the debate, (I have made contact with a local Tory who might be brave enough to put his head above the parapets), if we get 10 or so non socialists to turn out, it will be a success.
If there are enough people interested I would also organise a walking (and stopping in pubs and drinking) tour of the fair city of Newcastle upon Tyne on the Sunday dinner time.
Does that appeal to you Actual Socialist, we’d be happy to sort you out with a bunk?
It might not be summer sunshine in Malaga, but the crack should be canny. (there are cheap flights to Newcastle to and from Malaga Robbo, if you are prepared to cope with the cold, a warm welcome and transport from the airport is available and ham and pease puddin’ stotty may not be on the Michelin to do list, but they’re bloody lovely)
If anyone is interested crack was a Geordie word long before it became a loan word and tourist slogan in Ireland.
As proof the song “Dance to th’ Daddy” Starts with the line
“Cum hear me little Jacky, Noo I’ve smoked me Baccy
we’ll have a little cracky, til the Boat comes in”And, given enough ale, I’ll even sing the whole song as an encouragement for people to attend!
How’s that for marketing
Don’t want to remove you from your smoke filled fugue, Chelmsford, but here are just a few of the reports on Passive Smoking
Secondary Smoking health (including Lung Cancers). My union lead the fight for safer working environments for workers. Funnily enough their work wasn’t funded by Health Agencies or the like, but by union members funds!There are even more credible studies on passive smoking that here are Trotskyist internationals, which is a hell of an ask. So put his lot into your pipe and smoke it
1. Board of Science and Education & Tobacco Control Resource Centre. Towards smoke-free public places. London, British Medical Association. 2002.
2. Oberg M, Jaakkola M, Woodward A, Peruga A, Pruss-Ustun A. Worldwide burden of disease from exposure to second-hand smoke: a retrospective analysis of data from 192 countries. Lancet. 2011;377(9760):139-46
3. Fielding, JE and Phenow, KL. Health Effects of Involuntary Smoking. New England Journal of Medicine 1988; 319: 1452-60
4. Otsuka, R. Acute effects of passive smoking on the coronary circulation in healthy young adults. JAMA. 2001; 286: 436-441
5. Tobacco smoke and involuntary smoking. IARC Monographs on the evaluation of carcinogenic risks to humans. Vol 83. Lyon, France. 2004.
6. Whincup, P et al. Passive smoking and risk of coronary heart disease and stroke: prospective study with cotinine measurement. BMJ. June 2004.
7. Barnoya, J. and Glantz, SA. Cardiovascular effects of secondhand smoke – Nearly as large as smoking. Circulation. 2005. 111(20): p. 2684-2698.
8. Chen, Z et al. Effect of Passive Smoking on Female Breast Cancer in China A Meta-analysis. Asia-Pacific Journal of Public Health. 2013.
9. Trimble C, Genkinger J, Burke A et al. Active and passive cigarette smoking and the risk of cervical neoplasia. Obstetrics & Gynecology. 2005. Vol. 105, No. 1 pp. 174-181.
10. Secretan B, Straif K, Baan R, Grosse Y. et al. A review of human carcinogens—Part E: tobacco, areca nut, alcohol, coal smoke, and salted fish. The Lancet Oncology. 2009. 10 (11) 1033-1034. doi:10.1016/S1470- 2045(09)70326-2
11. Oono IP, Mackay DF & Pell JP. Meta-analysis of the association between secondhand smoke exposure and stroke. J Pub Health. 2011.
12. Anstey, KJ et al. Smoking as a risk factor for dementia and cognitive decline: a meta-analysis of prospective studies. American Journal of Epidemiology, 2007. 166(4): p. 367-378.
13. Ott, A et al. Effect of smoking on global cognitive function in nondemented elderly. Neurology, 2004. 62(6): p. 920-924.
14. Barnes, DE et al. Secondhand Smoke, Vascular Disease, and Dementia Incidence: Findings From the Cardiovascular Health Cognition Study. American Journal of Epidemiology, 2010. 171(3): p. 292-302.
15. Chen, R et al. Association of Passive Smoking With Cognitive Impairment in Nonsmoking Older Adults A Systematic Literature Review and a New Study of Chinese Cohort. Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry and Neurology. 2013.
16. Zhang L, Curhan GC, Hu FB, Rimm EB et al. Association between passive and active smoking and incident type 2 diabetes in women. Diabetes Care. 2011. doi: 10.2337/dc10-2087
17. Wang, Y, Ji, J, Liu, YJ, Deng, X, and He, Q. Passive smoking and risk of type 2 diabetes: a metaanalysis of prospective cohort studies. PLoS One 8[7], e69915. 2013.
18. Leung, CC, Lam TH, Kin S et al. Passive Smoking and Tuberculosis. Arch Internal Medicine. 2010. 170. 3: 287 – 292.
19. Jamrozik, K. Estimate of deaths among adults in the United Kingdom attributable to passive smoking. BMJ. 2005.
20. Royal College of Physicians. Passive smoking and children. A report of the Tobacco Advisory Group of the Royal College of Physicians. London, RCP. 2010.
21. Jarvis MJ et al. Children’s exposure to passive smoking in England since the 1980s: cotinine evidence from population surveys. BMJ. 2000. 321: 343-345
22. Lovasi GS, Diez Roux AV, Hoffman EA, et al. Association of Environmental Tobacco Smoke Exposure in Childhood With Early Emphysema in Adulthood Among Nonsmokers. American Journal of Epidemiology. 2009
23. Leonardi-Bee J, Smyth A, Britton J, Coleman T. Effects of Environmental Tobacco Smoke (ETS) on Fetal Health: Systematic Review and Meta- analysis. 2007.
24. Salmasi G, Grady R, Jones J, McDonald SD, Knowledge Synth G. Environmental tobacco smoke exposure and perinatal outcomes: a systematic review and meta-analyses. Acta Obstetricia Et Gynecologica Scandinavica. 2010;89(4):423-41.
25. Leonardi-Bee J, Britton J, Venn A. Secondhand Smoke and Adverse Fetal Outcomes in Nonsmoking Pregnant Women: A Meta-analysis. Pediatrics. 2011;127(4):734-41.
26. Jones LL, Hashim A, McKeever T, Cook DG, Britton J, Leonardi-Bee J. Parental and household smoking and the increased risk of bronchitis, bronchiolitis and other lower respiratory infections in infancy: systematic review and meta-analysis. Respiratory Research. 2011; 12:5.
27. Burke H, Leonardi-Bee J, Hashim A, Pine-Abata H, Chen Y, Cook DG, et al. Prenatal and Passive Smoke Exposure and Incidence of Asthma and Wheeze: Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. Pediatrics. 2012;129(4):735-44.
28. Tinuoye, O., J.P. Pell, and D.F. Mackay. Meta-analysis of the Association Between Secondhand Smoke Exposure and Physician-Diagnosed Childhood Asthma. Nicotine & Tobacco Research. 2013.
29. Jones LL, Hassanien A, Cook DG, Britton J, Leonardi-Bee J. Parental Smoking and the Risk of Middle Ear Disease in Children A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis. Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine. 2012;166(1):18-27.
30. Murray RL, Britton J, Leonardi-Bee J. Second hand smoke exposure and the risk of invasive meningococcal disease in children: systematic review and meta-analysis. BMC public health. 2012;12(1):1-11.
31. Hemminki K, Chen B. Parental lung cancer as predictor of cancer risks in offspring: Clues about multiple routes of harmful influence? International Journal of Cancer. 2006;118(3):744-8.
32. Nageris B, Braverman I, Hadar T, Hansen MC, Frenkiel S. Effects of passive smoking on odour identification in children. Journal of Otolaryngology. 2001;30(5):263-5.
33. Best, D. Secondhand and prenatal tobacco smoke exposure. Pediatrics 2009;124;e1017-e1044. 2009.
34. Centre for Community Child Health. Preventing passive smoking effects on children. Royal Children’s Hospital, Australia. 2006.
35. Carrington J, Watson AFR, Gee IL. Environmental Tobacco Smoke in UK Pubs and Bars: the effects of smoking status and ventilation. ARIC Manchester Metropolitan University. Atmospheric Environment International-Europe 37 2003; 3 (1): 3255-3266.
36. Ott WR, Klepeis NE, Switzer P. Analytical Solutions to Compartmental Indoor Air Quality Models with Application to Environmental Tobacco Smoke Concentrations Measured in a House. Journal of the Air and Waste Management Association. 2003 Aug;53(8):918-36.
37. Matt GE, et al. Households contaminated by environmental tobacco smoke: sources of infant exposures. Tobacco Control. 2004 Mar;13(1):29- 37.
38. Becquemin MH, et al. Third-hand smoking: indoor measurements of concentration and sizes of cigarette smoke particles after re-suspension. Tobacco Control. 2010 Aug;19(4):347-8.
39. Sleiman M, Logue JM, Luo W, Pankow JF, et al. Inhalable constituents of thirdhand tobacco smoke: chemical characterization and health impact considerations. Environmental Science and Technology. 2014. 18;48(22):13093-101.
40. Hang B, Sarker AH, Havel C, Saha S, et al. Thirdhand smoke causes DNA damage in human cells. Mutagenesis. 2013 Jul;28(4):381-91.
41. Martins-Green M, Adhami N, Frankos M, Valdez M, et al. Cigarette smoke toxins deposited on surfaces: implications for human health. Public Library of Science. 2014 Jan 29;9(1):e86391.
42. Scottish Parliament. Smoking Prohibition (Children in Motor Vehicles) (Scotland) Act. 2016.
43. Pell, J and Haw S. The triumph of national smoke-free legislation. Heart 2009;95:1377-1379
44. Sims M, Maxwell R, Bauld L, Gilmore. A short term impact of smoke-free legislation in England: retrospective analysis of hospital admissions for myocardial infarction. BMJ 2010; 340:c2161
45. Lightwood JM, Glantz SA. Declines in acute myocardial infarction after smoke-free laws and individual risk attributable to secondhand smoke. Circulation. 2009. 120:1373-1379.
46. Pechacek T. and Babb S. Commentary: How acute and reversible are the cardiovascular risks of secondhand smoke? BMJ 2004 Vol. 328 pp. 980-983.
47. Meyers DG et al. Cardiovascular effect of bans on smoking in public places. J Am Coll Cardiol 2009; 54: 1249-55.
48. Callinan JE, Clarke A, Doherty K and Kelleher C. Legislative smoking bans for reducing secondhand smoke exposure, smoking prevalence and tobacco consumption. Cochrane Database of Systematic reviews. 2010.
49. Schroeder, SA. Public smoking bans are good for the heart. J Am Coll Cardiol 2009; 54: 1256-7
50. D.F. Mackay, M.O. Irfan, S. Haw, J.P. Pell. Meta-analysis of the effect of comprehensive smoke-free legislation on acute coronary events. Heart, 2010. 96: 1525–1530.
51. Mackay, D., et al. Smoke-free legislation and hospitalizations for childhood asthma. New England Journal of Medicine, 2010. 363(12): 1139-1145.
52. Millett, C., et al., Hospital Admissions for Childhood Asthma After Smoke-Free Legislation in England. Pediatrics, 2013. 131(2): p. E495-E501.
53. Fichtenberg CM, Glantz SA. Effect of smoke-free workplaces on smoking behaviour: A systematic review. BMJ 2002 Jul 27;325(7357):188.
54. Repace, J. Risk management of passive smoking at work and at home. Saint Louis University Public Law Review 1994; 13: 763-785
55. Winkelstein M, Tarzian A, Wood R. Parental smoking behaviour and passive smoke exposure in children with asthma. Annals of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology. 1997 Apr;78(4):419-23.
56. Baxi R. et al. Family and carer smoking control programmes for reducing children’s exposure to environmental tobacco smoke. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2014.
57. Ott W, Langan L, Switzer P. A time series model for cigarette smoking activity patterns: model validation for carbon monoxide and respirable particles in a chamber and an automobile. J Expo Anal Environ Epidemiol, 1992; 2 (Suppl 2):175-200
58. Jarvie JA, Malone RE. Children’s secondhand smoke exposure in private homes and cars: an ethical analysis. Am J Public Health. 2008; 98(12):2140–5.
59. Bertone ER, Snyder LA, and Moore AS. Environmental tobacco smoke and risk of malignant lymphoma in pet cats. American Journal of Epidemiology 2002 Aug 1;156(3):268-73.
60. Reif JS, Bruns C, Lower KS. Cancer of the nasal cavity and paranasal sinuses and exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in pet dogs. American Journal of Epidemiology 1998 Mar 1;147(5):488-92
To Be honest, in looks and accent (but not content) I thought Hardy was the spitting double of Professor Stanley Unwin
I wouldn’t worry too much about SPEW, from what I’ve heard they are leaching members to the newly fashionable RCP (I’m sure I’ve come across that name before, somewhere).
I would guess that pretty soon SPEW will have gone the same way as:
Communist League (UK, 1932)
Communist League (UK, 1990)
International Socialist Group
International Socialist Group (Scotland)
League for Socialist Action (UK)
Left Fraction
Leninist League (UK)
Marxist Group (UK)
Marxist Party
Militant Group
Permanent Revolution (group)
Revolutionary Communist League (UK)
Revolutionary Socialist League (UK, 1938)
Revolutionary Socialist League (UK, 1956)
Revolutionary Socialist Party (UK)
Revolutionary Workers’ Party (Trotskyist)
Scottish Militant Labour
Socialist Alternatives
Socialist Democracy Group
Socialist Labour Group
Socialist Solidarity Network
Socialist Unity (UK)
Workers League (UK)
Workers’ International League (1937)
Workers’ International League (1985)
Workers’ Internationalist League
Workers’ Power (UK)
Workers’ Socialist LeagueChelmsford – “ME sounds something like neurasthenia which was fashionable from the middle of the 19th century until the late Edwardian period.”
Not like you, Chelmsford, to come up with a crass, ill informed comment, displaying a complete lack of understanding and empathy.
It might not have occurred to our from our correspondent from the paleogenic period that members of the working class (and sometimes not even women!) may have experienced similar symptoms but not have been reported as no one gave a stuff about them and that they were left to wither and die unacknowledged.
Relying on those world renowned physicians Lenin and Nietzsche might have been a bit of a mistake, methinks.
Back in a world which has moved on from anaglypta, wood chip and chicken in a basket, researchers at Oxford University have developed a blood test which can distinguished between healthy individuals, disease controls, and ME/CFS patients with a 91 percent accuracy. The test was so sensitive it was even able to differentiate between mild, moderate, and severe ME/CFS patients.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/advs.202302146
But hey Chelmsford, lets not rely on made up stuff like science, eh?
Rodshaw, I hope your daughter gets some degree of relief, my sister had 10 years of being told her pain was psychosomatic until they finally found out she had Trigeminal neuralgia and my partner was also told that her long term pain was in her head until her doctors finally believed her and found out she had rheumatoid arthritis
Had a little chat with one of the SPEW stall holders outside my workplace earlier this week. It was unnerving just how little capacity for critical thinking some of the trots have.
He was a fairly young lad but had been in SPEW for five years and was telling me that the demands from his party were realistic. The particular theme that day was student grants not loans and other student sops to attract students, as well as the usual list of nationalisation and higher taxes on the rich. He called them “stepping stones towards Socialism”.
When asked if he knew that even the leaders of his group knew the demands couldn’t be achieved and that these demands were put in place deliberately to demonstrate to the workers who support these demands capitalism can’t meet their desired outcome, this turning them into revolutionaries, he seemed genuinely non plussed. He went off to talk to the top banana who was accompanying him to check out what I said was true!
Looks like only the top echelons of SPEW are privy to the truth about the famous Trotskyist alchemy routine.
