alanjjohnstone
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MS, also, where are all the lawyers that were promised to challenge any unfavorable election result in court?
“Neither countries were or are imperialist so I reject the framing of your question.”
Saying something does not make it so.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it is most probable it is a duck.
But you are often suffer from self-contradictions such as that there are two types of Nazis, bad Nazis and good Nazis
A bad Nazi is one that is pro-Ukrainian. A good Nazi is one that is pro-Russian.
“Intermittent skirmishing is not war.”
But your whole case was that since 2014 Ukraine was at war with the separatists and you cite the artillery shelling.
In 1985, the Chinese fired about one million shells targeted at Vietnamese border regions…in the period from 1986 to early 1987, with only several tens of thousands of rounds fired per month… During the five-year period from 1984 to 1989, the Chinese had fired over 2 million artillery rounds.
Vietnam acknowledged 4,000 killed and 9,000 wounded in the area between 1984 and 1989.
The Chinese confirmed their corresponding casualty figure as 4,100, including over 2,000 war dead.Sounds very much like war to me
Is your reference confirming or refuting what I said?
“The battleground of Vi Xuyen District in the northern Ha Giang Province was the most critical and violent front during the intermittent fighting between the two Communist countries from 1979 to 1989″
“It is a very confusing period for someone who claims to be both pro-Soviet and pro-Chinese to witness the rivalry between them and the tensions that existed that often neared open war” What’s your point?”
In relation to the conflict which do you sympathise with? Russia in support of Vietnam or China in support of Khymer Rouge.
Two actually existing socialist countries, both expressing imperialistic policies and you don’t recognise the paradox…
TS is in total denial when the evidence is even when it is in front of his face.
The Wagner mercenaries.
Who was Wagner? Why is it named after him?
Was it because Wagner composed pretty tunes?
Or because what Wagner came to stand for?
If tattoos are the criteria for if you are a nazi or not Wagner’s commander Utkin has SS insignia, the Nazi eagle and a Swastika tattoos.
And what of Rusich?
One of its leader said, “I’m not going to go deep and say, I’m a nationalist, a patriot, an imperialist, and so forth. I’ll say it outright: I’m a Nazi.”
He could have added sick-minded sadist to the list.
Another leader linked to the “Soldiers of Odin” neo-nazis
If Putin wished to de-nazify he has not far to look to make a start.
“Once Russia’s offensives kick off Ukrainian troops will be slaughtered in appalling numbers. No need to filter out the dead.”
I found this comment resonates with similar bloodthirsty remarks throughout history
“Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.”
“Kill them. The Lord knows those that are his own”.Without understanding the full ramifications of his own logic, TS is advocating a genocidal war.
He does not differentiate between nationalists and Nazis (as seen by his failure to comprehend my earlier statement, “The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments” No, they’re not. Just as most German soldiers weren’t in SS units. What’s your point?)What is the Azov Battalion. War always needs it villains
A study of the Ukrainian Far-right
Pro-Putin Nazis
Can Russia win decisively? Who knows?
But if they do it could come at an immense cost in their own lives as much as Ukrainian ones.
In an all-out offensive to occupy Ukraine, has TS considered that Russian cities can become a target? Tit-for-Tat.
Long-range missiles are being provided to Ukraine by its allies on the strict stipulation that they are not used against Russia itself, only on the occupying attacking army. I have no idea what happens if that condition is lifted and those engaged in a proxy war supply more missiles capable of hitting Russian cities
Learn from other invaders.
The US easily accomplished the defeat of the Iraqi army but occupying the country and subduing an unwilling population was a very different matter.
“It lasted just over a month.”
Factcheck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_conflicts_(1979%E2%80%931991)
No doubt to protect your ignorance you will claim it is all CIA-WIKI imagination.
Regards the Kymer Rouge, China aligned itself with the US and UK in support the Kymer Rouge.
It is a very confusing period for someone who claims to be both pro-Soviet and pro-Chinese to witness the rivalry between them and the tensions that existed that often neared open war, particularly since it involved China collaborating with the USA against the USSR.
FYI
https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/709161/Brothers%20Thesis.pdf
An essay from João Pedro Stedile, of the Landless Workers’ Movement (MST) in Brazil.
Your figures are suspect but even if allowing them to be accurate. Voting numbers do not reflect them, party membership do not reflect them but we have always accepted that the neo-Nazis do punch above their weight.
So the population of Ukraine is in the tens of millions and your Nazis number in the hundreds of thousands.
The vast majority of the Ukrainian military are not in politically extremist regiments, (just as the majority of Russian army is not Wagner or Chechen mercenaries)To remove this minority from influence and out of power according to the De-Nazification plan means completely defeating the Ukrainians, occupying all of their country and operating purges through the “filtration” system to identify those who fought for nationalistic reasons and those who fought for the Nazi ideology motive. A bit more complex than checking for tattoos.
What an elaborate infrastructure will have to be put into place.
You are confident of the ability of Russia to accomplish this. And you suggest we are not the realists!!
And just how long can this process be implemented? Years? Decades? Forever?
At the negotiating table, Zelensky may well accept that to achieve peace he and his cabinet can resign. And who will hold the veto on the people who take their place?. The Russians, of course. Ukraine becomes a puppet state.
Is this a feasible pathway to peace? A settlement acceptable to the majority of non-Nazi Ukrainians? I think not.
Also, you have a serious misreading of the Sino-Vietnamese War that continued long after the Chinese invasion was foiled. Yet again as has been said by others here, you confuse pretext with cause. It was a war between two imperialist countries aspiring for control of Indo-China.
“Which means you don’t care if Nazis win…But when you defeat Nazis you usually keep on living. Not necessarily so if the Nazis win.”
You were previously asked how many Ukrainians were Fascists, Banderites and Nazis and failed to offer any answer.
Is it 10%, 20%, 30%, half, most, or all?
It would suit pro-Russians to think that every Ukrainian was a Nazi. It makes the justification of invasion and pretext for the war so much easier.
However, can I ask how you de-nazify if you don’t even know who are the nazis?
Whereas the reality of this war is that Ukrainians are fighting very much the same as Russians are, having been duped by indoctrination to be nationalists and identify with the state-nation that they accidentally were born in.
And what significance is “We are witnessing a realignment of the global geopolitical order.” to the working class.
A mere change of master, a different slave-driver.
“The defeat of US/European hegemony, of which this will be a major contribution, may well be a step in that direction.”
And another question you failed to respond to was the comparison made previously with the Vietnamese defeating American imperialists to be subsequently invaded by the Chinese. A political power vacuum is always very quickly filled by another aspiring expansionist imperialist power.
“What is SPGB doing right now to take advantage of the capitalist crisis we’re living through?”
One important act we are engaged in is repudiating the myth of nationalism that contributes to the cause of wars. We aren’t reinforcing the ideology of patriotism, and national loyalty or creating chauvinist stereotypes to dehumanise fellow workers by ascribing to a whole people, extremist politics that only a small number actually hold.
Basic education in cause and effect is not abstract, Lizzie.
But to reply to your own personal interest, rather than advocate token one-day marches, or even a consumer boycott, we have said that the only effective way to counter the cost of living crisis is through determined industrial action. Class action and not individualism.
But before we go off on a tangent, there is a separate topic to debate that question. This thread should remain focused on the Ukraine war (incidentally, is there any reasonable observer still using the euphemism ‘special military operation’ or has commonsense and reality finally prevailed)
If you seek to carry on, Lizzie, cut and paste my remark and put on the appropriate topic.
“You know as much about military strategy as you do about socialism. Ie, nothing”
Let us all just admit, no one on the forum is a military strategist.
No one on the forum possesses inside intelligence on the progress of the war.
No one on this forum can influence the conduct of the war or determine its course.
However, on the forum, there is one cheerleader who has chosen who he wants to win the war.
All others here don’t give a damn about which side is victorious.
Our view is that it is always the working class who pays the price of war and it is always the working class who loses in war.
We aren’t attempting to re-arrange the front-lines, to change the order of battle, to prepare for the next offensive.
This is not a war to end wars.
Only winning the class war can do that. And that is that war we are solely committed to.
A long list of the virtues of Xi’s China
https://countercurrents.org/2022/11/working-conditions-of-workers-in-china/
An interview with an Iranian anarchist
Paul: What’s your perspective on the current regime? What’s your take on the Mullahs who took power following the 1979 revolution?
Comrade: My perspective is that they’ve been robbing the people and the land blind and holding life hostage for about forty-three years. And that it’s way overdue for them to go. And I think what they’re doing is also anti-Islamic, and it’s actually turning people away from Islam. Even the most devout families are now coming out against the regime; the mullahs hold zero legitimacy.
“All the same, she is still rather vague as to what she thinks the present system should be replaced by.”
Should we be surprised that a young teenager doesn’t possess all the answers?
Who have been her peer and mentor influences?
From someone who protested one day a week to get her government and businesses to do something to halt climate change she has evolved to recognise that no government and no corporation are actually willing to do so and that it requires a mass movement of people to push them into action.
Will Thunberg reach the stage where she comes to realise that only a revolutionary transformation of the economic system offers the only viable solution? She has many years ahead of her to discover that.
I think we have to credit her for how far her thinking has already come.
