Zeitgeist candidate for mayor in New Zealand
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In Saturday's elections for the mayor of Nelson in New Zealand there will be a Zeitgeist candidate standing for a moneyless economy. See:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/8685259/New-candidate-keen-on-moneyless-future
http://www.vote.co.nz/2013/candidates/richard-osmaston-7643
A video of him speaking can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-PmaxCaXR8
It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets.
jondwhite wrote:I did not expect that.I did. Aunty Abolisher (a.k.a. Nick Tapping), of the Money Free Party, announced it on Facebook sometime ago.
ALB wrote:In Saturday's elections for the mayor of Nelson in New Zealand there will be a Zeitgeist candidate standing for a moneyless economy. See:http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/8685259/New-candidate-keen-on-moneyless-futurehttp://www.vote.co.nz/2013/candidates/richard-osmaston-7643A video of him speaking can be seen here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-PmaxCaXR8It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets.He received 308 votes out of a total vote cast of 19851 which is 1.5% – not bad if that's his first attempt. I wonder what the NZ comrades know or make of him?
More detailed result here:http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-body-elections/9276561/Rachel-Reese-wins-Nelson-mayoraltyI see that in NZ they use the first-past-the-post system for electing mayors while they use some proportional representation system for parliament. The opposite to here, where you can't be elected mayor with less than 50% of the votes (after redistribution of the second preferences of the bottom candidates).By the way, I don't think he was an official Zeitgeist candidate even though he was expressing their ideas. I think they give their members a free hand to stand in elections or even join a party if they want to while as an organisation being "non-political".
Going by the total number of votes cast for the four candidates (16851 and not 19851 which had originally been supposed) Osmaston did rather better – in fact receiving 1.83% of the actual vote… Turnout was 48.74% which was down on the 2010 election.
gnome wrote:Turnout was 48.74% which was down on the 2010 election.That's not bad compared with turnout in UK local elections which, in some places, is half that. Even for the high-profile London mayor election in 2012 the turnout was only 38%.
ALB wrote:By the way, I don't think he was an official Zeitgeist candidate even though he was expressing their ideas. I think they give their members a free hand to stand in elections or even join a party if they want to while as an organisation being "non-political".I suspect the reason he stood on the Resource Based Economy ticket which TZM advocate was to get free publicity for the idea. Much like us in that respect. However, because TZM are strictly arguing for a change in values to bring about the necessary changes in capitalism they have unfortunately dumped all political dialogue in the waste basket labeled 'party political activity'.Although their members have a free hand to stand in elections they are not encouraged to do so for they see no need for a political challenge being organised by the 99% to bring about a revolutionary transformation in the ownership of the means of living.According to TZM the necessary changes in values are brought about by an evolutionary process and not a revolutionary process. I have yet to figure out how they reached this conclusion when history explains otherwise.
A it happens – just watching this:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/11032571/Italys-Renzi-must-bring-back-the-lira-to-end-depression.htmland particularly the video at the bottom for Italy to list illegal activity as part of GDP.Anyway – as you know – TZM doesn't want to have anything to do with money – surely the video above speaks volumes about the idiocy of money.Anyway – average comment in the DT comments is as follows"On the internet Italy's population is listed at 57.5MM (2000), 55.2MM (2015E), 52.4MM (2025) and 43.0MM (2050)".There's a strong pattern of population reversal occurring.It's estimated that eg Japan will drop from 125 to 90 million by 2050 also.Bottom line – capitalism requires growth – growth cannot occur if populations drop.Capitalism IS dead – don't worry about killing it off – time will see to that.So it's an evolutionary change (see population growth curves eg Malthus) NOT revolutionary change which is responsible for the world's ageing/decreasing population.There's nothing that anybody can do to save capitalism (even if anybody's dumb enough to want to try) – it's **over** … … the basic idea of the SPGB/WSM has won … … it's now time to make it happen by increasing the education level of people up to the standard that they're ready for a one world system (another aspect of the evolutionary model of TZM).You don't need elections, party membership, words like 'worker' … … any more; they're all divisive ie separate people into self-interest camps – we at the point in human evolution (that word again!) where we need global unity.The SPGB/WSM has (in effect) won – and now it's time to make that world which it envisages workable.The world doesn't need the division which comes with tribal labels like socialist and capitalist – what we require is the most rational, sustainable system in place.This is a product of science, art, technology … … not politics, law, money – all anachronisms.I'd suggest that TZM views everything to do with politics, legal system and money – symptoms of the disease which prevent the *very* change which eg WSM/SPGB support.
I think New Zealand has a history of "unorthodox" politics. Didn't they have a strong Social Credit movement with MPs at one time?SB-UK does that mean we can now rest on our laurels..not only the SPGB but TZM too and simply let history take its course…oops …history actually does nothing does it and social evolution is not the exact same as biological evolution, either , is it ……people make history…social systems evolve because of the actions of people…perhaps you are a bit premature in deciding the SPGB and politics is now superfluous. Global unity needs political action…capitalism has already achieved the global economy, it has achieved the material basis of abundance …but it will take people to implement it…and persuading people and giving them the power to carry out their will…that is political action.Not sure you are right about population…on numerical figures you are right, Germany has a declining population too…demographics show we need a young immigrant population in Europe and North America to support the increasing older folk…the graph shows a projected rise then a drop in population…but isn't the growth for capitalism going to be about providing for the supposed rise of the "middle classes" and offering a western consumer culture. Capitalism still has life in it still.
I'm pretty sure that capitalism was a workable system supporting the dramatic global human population expansion.And that socialism/anarchy is the only workable system which we can embrace when human population growth plateaus out, drops (and ages … …)The basic pattern will be seen everywhere (as described by Hans Rosling in his recent TV documentary) ie there won't be anywhere for people to get immigrant labour from soon.What's the best that we can do if we want to see the change we wish – ensure education material to all worldwide – a global wireless Internet and wikipedia will suffice.SPGB/WSM were just a little ahead of their time (the population expansion had not yet occurred when WSM were founded.Similarly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclop%C3%A9distes did not have the global wireless internet.So – there's an inevitable transition underway – and it's playing out its final stages (towards 2050 I'd guess) … … and all that's up for grabs is how soon before complete collapse we can force transition.So – to play one's part in providing people with access to information (education) is all that's required to force the collapse of capitalism – whether through personal revulsion or through education driven reduction in family sizes.However, one important point to be made – is that the rich versus poor battle isn't useful UNLESS the poor wish to evenly distribute wealth to all people; if it's simply for a select few poor to occupy the position of power of the rich – well … … same old.The message I'd hang on to (stolen from Christianity) is that it's a personal battle to overcome the love/desire of money (as the root of all evil) or original sin – which capitalism is a social expression of.With moral education (ie the individual knowing right from wrong) the individual's motivation changes from selfish to social by itself … … so an evolutionary change in the individual/society with a moral (know what is right and what is wrong) education.The not so minor issue we have currently is a schism between Western style education and morality ie there's no morality in much of what is taught in school – they're simply 'schemes' which any one can pick up given hours and hours of learning.So – as an example – genetic modification is easy – but why're genetic manipulators not stopping to question the morality of modification of a system which they don't understand … … especially when it's known that just 2 hits can turn a biological system cancerous:http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/tumor-suppressor-ts-genes-and-the-two-887How do I know that capitalism is dead ?I don't want any thing; once there is no desire for anything that money can buy … … well – you know that capitalism (which relies on you buying happiness) is dead.Personally – I do have a couple of things – but they're so badly made that they're forever broken, in need of repair … … as I've weeded my thingyverse down – there's been a sense of relief that I no longer need to look after x,y,z as opposed to any sadness at losing access to whichever service {insert consumer device} permitted.Note – I'm not against ALL material world manmade objects just poorly engineered, non-recycleable, non-upgradeable ie against the precise type of 'thing' which is generated by capitalism under the heading of obsolescence (technological/perceived).Re-iterating the point of an evolutionary change to Quality.Human population expansion -> Human population plateauCapitalism -> Socialism/AnarchySelfish motivaation -> Social motivationBasic essentials met (but poorly) -> Quality
So – in summary – capitalism is a formalization of a human desire (materialism).Education (into what is right and what is wrong <- true education) displaces the materialist drive with the drive to become personally better (of higher quality) compatible with harmonious social structure (global) co-existence.Materialist drive in individual/tribe (standard political demagogue rhetoric to make your country great)+Morality education->Social drive (Marx,Proudhon) culminating eventually in global unityIt will just happen – but we can speed up the transition – as long as people talk to as opposed to lecture at people.Tell somebody to do something and they'll do the opposite – it's what life living in capitalist society where everyone's a variation on a shady double glazing salesman seeking to sell you fresh air, teaches us.-*-So – what can we do to make this happen ?Ensure wikipedia is polished off, that an education can be delivered from its pages, that the global wireless internet is accessible worldwide and that there's a ROBUST device which people can use to access it.That robust device will have as little hardware as possible.So – no need for politics.
I'm not sure an "It will just happen" approach will get anyone anywhere.Imagine the word has spread and everyone is ready for the big change from capitalism to a resource based economy or socialism, whatever you want to call it. What next?Without direct democratic participation and organisation the change we seek will not "just happen".
SB_UK wrote:So – no need for politics.depends on what you mean by "politics". Capitalism continues to exist for two main reasons: because people accept or acquiecse in it (the problem you are addressing) and because those who benefit from it currently control political power.Once enough people who want to end capitalism have emerged they will be faced with deciding what to do next. You suggested at one point, I think, that they go off and try to lead the simple life. But only a few can do this and it won't really isolate them from the effects of capitalism. Much more constructive is to confront capitalism and organise to take political power out of the hands of the capitalist class so that it can be used to coordinate the transition from capitalism to socialism. It is naive to imagine that this confrontation can be avoided.Agreed, no need for the sort of politics that exists today (of professional poliricians making empty promises to get voted into office to further their careers and/or line their own pockets). But still the need for democratic political action to dislodge the capitalist class from power and pave the way for the Earth's resources to become the common heritage of all. I can't see how this can be avoided at some stage.
SP:"everyone is ready for the big change"If the majority want the world – then adversarial politics is dead; there's no adversary as such.Sure – we'll need a practical implementation, but that's not a political but an actual 'doing' process.So – the devil's in the detail of whether 'everyone' desires the change.As far as I can see it's irrational not to want it – and so all that's required is education (general) to allow people to see for themselves that the WSM/SPGB/TZM/TVP world is what they'd like.Though I'd simplify all of that down to just equality in limiting material world resources.It's remarkable the disdain for nature which capitalism has shown – and is in line with human beings believing that with wealth they buy themselves a stairway to Heaven- actually direct entry into Hell as addiction to money engulfs their entire existence.
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