Working class riots
December 2024 › Forums › General discussion › Working class riots
Tagged: is conspiracy
- This topic has 44 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 1 week ago by KAZ.
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August 5, 2024 at 11:30 pm #253494paula.mcewanModerator
A few hundred men try to set a refugee hotel on fire. We should be worried. But not too worried because the police stopped them. I never thought I would see the day when I supported the police.
August 6, 2024 at 8:53 am #253497ALBKeymasterYes, we should have something to say about this. It can’t just be a result of misinformation on social media and outside agitators directed by Tommy Robinson from his holiday hotel room in Cyprus, as the media are claiming. It seems more like a spontaneous misdirected (and how!) expression of the discontent of a section of the working class. Not that rioting is any answer.
Starmer is calling for the full force of the law to be directed against the rioters. He has form on this as he was prosecutor-general at the time of the 2011 riots in London when some poor sod was jailed for stealing a bottle of mineral water:
https://www.businessinsider.com/nicolas-roberts-looter-water-london-2011-8?amp
In Belfast the Union Jack and the Irish tricolour have been waved side by side, something that last happened during anti-Means Test protests in the 1930s.
Tragic that this unity is directed at another section of the working class.
August 6, 2024 at 9:29 am #253499DJPParticipantWhy not call a spade a spade? Why not call it far-right and white supremacist terrorism? This is what it is, with some opportunist elements being dragged along.
Of course, the scapegoating of migrants and minority groups is nothing new but what is (relatively) new is how such discourse was made mainstream by the previous governments, and the nebulous way in which these events are being organised. Due to the invention of social media, these aren’t being centrally driven by a specific organisation or individual but are coming out of networks of people connected by an adherence to a vague set of ideas. This book is a couple of years old now but is a very good explanation of the current situation:
https://www.dogsection.org/product/post-internet-far-right
Marx to Vogt, 1870: “Every industrial and commercial centre in England now possesses a working class divided into two hostile camps, English proletarians and Irish proletarians. The ordinary English worker hates the Irish worker as a competitor who lowers his standard of life. In relation to the Irish worker he regards himself as a member of the ruling nation and consequently he becomes a tool of the English aristocrats and capitalists against Ireland, thus strengthening their domination over himself. […]
This antagonism is artificially kept alive and intensified by the press, the pulpit, the comic papers, in short, by all the means at the disposal of the ruling classes. This antagonism is the secret of the impotence of the English working class, despite its organisation. It is the secret by which the capitalist class maintains its power. And the latter is quite aware of this.”
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/letters/70_04_09.htm
August 6, 2024 at 9:34 am #253500DJPParticipantIt would also be a catastrophic mistake to think that these disturbances are a reflection of the general mood in the UK. As articles like this one point out:
“[…]the Ipsos survey showed people are generally more positive about the impact of immigration than not, although that gap has tightened since 2022 too.
As for longer term attitudes, the respected European Social Survey found that in 2022, external most people in the UK thought immigration had been good for the economy and the country’s cultural life. A clear majority said it had made Britain a better place to live.
Separate research by the World Values Survey, external found the UK the least likely country to agree that immigration causes crime or unemployment. Just 5% of Brits said they’d be unhappy to have an immigrant for a neighbour, one of the lowest proportions found anywhere.”
August 6, 2024 at 10:23 am #253501ALBKeymasterI think it’s more anti-Muslim than white supremacist. After all, Robinson has concluded an alliance with the Hindu nationalists. Not sure that a lot of the rioters would agree with or understand this.
August 6, 2024 at 12:06 pm #253502DJPParticipant“I think it’s more anti-Muslim than white supremacist.”
I think that’s true for the general mood. But there are elements expressing a more generalised racism, including real neo-nazi elements.
August 6, 2024 at 12:22 pm #253503DJPParticipantSomething else that is interesting here is that some of the initial spread of misinformation was probably nothing to do with any ideology, but automatically generated by bot accounts with the aim of generating clicks and so advertising revenue.
August 6, 2024 at 1:11 pm #253504ZJWParticipantRe the touching co-display of union jacks and tricolors:
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by ZJW.
August 6, 2024 at 3:29 pm #253506ALBKeymasterFor whatever motive, Moscow is interested in these riots as this interview by one of their media outlets of Nick Griffin, billed as an ex-MEP shows. I see griffin is now a conspiraloon too.
August 7, 2024 at 12:01 am #253507james19ParticipantI’ve been on X pointing out that a lot of rioters would have been overjoyed at the jailing of Just Stop Oil protestors.
Hopefully, those arrested will get the same 🤡 judge, jailed for 10 years minimum…KarmaWhilst a number of individuals are being linked to insighting riots, we should not forget that the newspapers, the Sun and Daily Mail, have been in a frenzied relentless attack almost daily war against ‘illegals’ asylum seekers, coming over here arriving on ‘our’ beaches in small boats……
https://x.com/I_amMukhtar/status/1820458097803935926?t=eoKioiubMPrqq4Xzv3i_rg&s=19
August 7, 2024 at 4:31 am #253508ZJWParticipantFinancial Times article of April 26 2024 on the different (‘positive’ vs ‘negative’) results of immigration in Ireland / UK / US vs Belgium / France / Netherlands / Sweden:
(Hardly a class- or social-revolutionist perspective of course, but …)
August 7, 2024 at 9:15 am #253509Young Master SmeetModeratorThe Telegraph had a headline yesterday “Company director sobs in court as he’s remanded for alleged role in Middlesbrough riots”, now it turns out the lad worked in his dad’s firm.
And here’s a list of those that appeared in court:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/named-17-people-who-appeared-29689841Doubtless more will follow, I doubt if the actual organisers will get bit on the bum.
From what I could see of the Boro was that the trouble was from kids in tracksuits on bicycles: same as any other evening really. Middlesbrough, the last few times I’ve been up, is sinking: it used to be the local fleshpots and glamour lights, but most of Linthorpe road is now take aways, presumably propped up by the Uni.
There is an element of collective bargaining by riot, but the racism is real and deep. There was a video doing the rounds of a young lad being interviewed (not from Boro) claiming the immigrants are coming and taking all our jobs and benefits: the interviewer pointed out if they’re working they’re not taking benefits, but in his head both claims are true: the Other is getting everything, we get nothing. I’ve heard gadgees back home saying ‘oh, Asians get all the council houses’ – they’d never dream of applying for a council house themselves, but they believe the Other is getting everything.
August 7, 2024 at 10:22 am #253511DJPParticipantPerhaps worth sharing this for some straight thinking about immigration and capitalism.
August 7, 2024 at 3:27 pm #253512chelmsfordParticipantLarge gatherings of the working-class enjoying a little of what Hegel called ‘abstract negativity’ a perfect opportunity for socialists to do a bit of leafleting. These are the very people who will make the socialist revolution – so the story goes.
August 7, 2024 at 5:09 pm #253513DJPParticipantI’m not sure if the above was a response to my comment about “sharing” the critisticuffs text.
To be clear I meant worth sharing here on this forum with the people here.
If anyone fancies printing some out to hand out at the next far right pogrom or invasion of Gregg’s – well I guess you could, but that doesn’t mean you should!
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by DJP.
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