Why would membership of the SPGB be refused
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Glasgow Branch discussed this item at it's meetingof November 20, The Branch agreed by Ten Vote tonil that the secretary indicate that Glasgow branchdoes indeed agree that the E.C. can and must havethe right to reject applicants who's previousbehaviour has been disruptive and abusive. Thebranch have noted that some of the initialledapplicants in the E.C. minutes have taken up a lotof E.C. time and filled the forums with manyabusive remarks. There is that bugbear again, "proof"! Where is the proof of "myself" using any more "abusive remarks" than any other Forum member? nowhere, because it does not exist. As for taking up time from the E.C., the problems I and others raised re the SPGB forum would, it appears, have been solved to a large degree. If there had not been any 'problem', there would have been no need for a fix but there was, which has now been implemented.I will accept barring from the SPGB if and not before, the evidence, that everyone bandies about but do not produce, of behaviour so disruptive and abusive that it precludes any chance of re-joining the SPGB is produced! I have copies of the posts from Nov, Dec, Jan from spintcom, and the Forum, from myself and others, none of which, in any way, shape or form, merit the treatment that has been dished out. The ineluctable Stevie C.
I suggest you re read Animal Farm?
The ineluctable Stevie C. Back where you belong.
Why would membership of the SPGB be refused? Personal feelings of its EC?Reminder: Rule 7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages.
I have just read the EC minutes of December 2013. Would it not be fair to say that the SPGB need not give reasons for refusal into the socialist movement? I don't think there is anything in the rules that requires this.
Vin Maratty wrote:I have just read the EC minutes of December 2013. Would it not be fair to say that the SPGB need not give reasons for refusal into the socialist movement? I don't think there is anything in the rules that requires this.No there is nothing in the rules which requires a response to a double negative!
Brian wrote:No there is nothing in the rules which requires a response to a double negative!Brian, Not sure what you mean?
I think the double negative is a reference to your twice refused membership application. Now theres a double negative if ever there was one! You were and are, a good comrade. Your efforts Vin, on behalf of the movement for a sane world, are a credit to you and to those who have gone before. One of the best Socialists I have ever met, Bobby Gleghorn, had faith in you, as do many others who know you. As we reach another New Year, hopefully comrades wil reevaluate this empasse, and agree to let bygones be bygones, so that we all can move on together, in a spirit of fraternity and felicity, to achieve the ends we all strive for. Your complicity (love that word) in this endeavor, has been a boon to the struggle in the past, hopefully, when calmer minds prevail, it will be again. May the that day quicken in its course.My best wishes to all comrades, both those existant now and those yet to enter the fray. Be well all, and gird your loins for the battle, for it most assuredly is, the most important battle our class will ever fight and one we cannot afford to lose. Yours in the Struggle, Stevie C.
steve colborn wrote:I think the double negative is a reference to your twice refused membership application. Stevie C.Ah now I understand! The unkind would call it trolling, but not me. I extend my warm fraternal greetings to Brian and wish him a happy new year! I know he is keen on seeing the northeast branch up and running again as he is very positive about it.
Vin Maratty wrote:Brian wrote:No there is nothing in the rules which requires a response to a double negative!Brian, Not sure what you mean?
I was referring to use of the word 'not' twice in a single sentence – its a double negative – which is impossible to respond too. It had nothing to do with the EC twice rejecting your membership application. Like I've said previously I can see this going to a party vote.In the meantime there is nothing to stop you helping others in the North East getting a regional branch organised. Its was a sad day for me when the old branch members failed to put aside their differences and gradually pulled out of activity. Indeed if they had continued contesting elections the probability is I would have still been on the Election Committee helping you out in any way I could.Adam, John and myself had many a long talk at HO on how to go about improving your election activity. Its all water under the bridge but enjoyable because me and John especially were always trying to push the boundaries with the EC. Adam was more cautious then due to the costs for colour printing, etc!Once the branch is up and active learn how to pace yourselves. Don't let over enthusiasm and impatience get the better of you. Otherwise the branch will burn itself out again!
Thanks for the clarification, Brian. I don't necessarily agree that the use of the word ' not' twice in a single sentence equates to a double negative but then my degrees were in sociology and politics so I may be wrong. Having said that it is my intention to offer my full support and energies to the resurgence of the party in the north east. (Given the opportunity).Regarding the election activity in the NE branch, of which I took no part: didn't the branch do better than most? Not that its a competition but surely there is something to be learned from Seaham and Cde Colborne?I was aware of his activities, literally thousands of letters, talk shows, invitations to radio etc. His success is directly related to his input. Everyone in Seaham knows he is oppossed to the labour party and stands for REAL socialism. The Party was right to readmit him. Roll on the next electionall the best
Although we have had our differences Steve and myself are on the same wave length when it comes to understanding the need to consistently contest elections. Once a branch decides to contest any election they should not let go of the fact that consitentcy illustrates to the electorate that what we have to say is a serious message and that we are not a temporary feature on the political landscape.In this respect I'm hopeful that the party can organise a party political broadcast for the euro elections in Wales. Swansea Branch are in dire need to get back into election activity. And if the broadcast becomes a reality its my intention to ensure the branch contests the euro every time.Simply because we need the practice in how to get the message across to a disaffected working class in 3 minutes flat! Without that essential practice socialist theory counts for nothing. Party strategy is based on preparing the producers to challenge the the political system of capitalism. And in this respect there is plenty of work to be done in improving our efforts.Hopefully, an election in the North East will bring the members to their senses. You can only but try.
Hi Brian. I do not think the old NE branch folded because of members failing to put aside their differences, it was a case of members drifting away, for various reasons. The election activity persisted, as it had for many years but with lesser numbers participating. Nor was it a case of not knowing how to pace ourselves, as electoral activity of and in itself is quite straight forward and was the beneficiary of almost 3 decades of propogandising in the NE, which had a knock on effect of having the Party and its views, widely known. In point of fact, I do not believe the amount of propoganda that was put out in the NE has ever been matched in the history of the Party as a whole!Over enthusiasm or impatience was, again, never the problem but rather changes in the personal circumstances of individual members.The driving force for activity and the leg work, was undertaken by a limited number of comrades, John Bissett a prime example. It was not surprising that so much was achieved by so few. It will not be in the future, until the Branch, when it once again gets off the ground, swells in numbers.One has to be immersed in activity oneself, to realise what can be achieved and with such few numbers. Until one has been there, one cannot understand. This is one thing the party can take heart from. Numbers at this juncture are, more or less (more would be better) irrelevant.I remember approximately 15 years ago, sending detailed guidelines of the work that should be undertaken, over a 2 or 3 year period, to prepare the ground for contesting elections. It was lost in a sea of apathy and disinterest. The same work was undertaken by comrades in the NE, from which benefits are still being garnered.As someone who was, "in the middle of actiuvity", I do not see any correlation to actual events at the time in the NE and your observations and comments above. they bear no resemblance to actual fact or events.I think I speak from a position of authority, as I have stood in elections, from town to Euro, over the last 15 to 20 years. Be well Brian, YFS Stevie C.
To widen the debate geographically, i have to confess to being a bit disappointed by Edinburgh and Glasgow branches decision to not engage in the Euro-elections. Their published respective minutes didn't offer too much of an explanation to their refusal to participate, unfortunately. They have sadly let pass an opportunity of making a short promotional video and TV broadcast and the delivery of tens of thousands of leaflets to homes – neither any longer being constrained by tight budgets.The problem was not financial resources but a reluctance in the members to invest time and energy into the venture, even though the actual individual and physical commitment could have been as minimal as simply offering up one's name and address as a candidate. i sympathise with the fact that many members are getting on in age and have declining health and fitness but no actual foot-work of hand delivering door-to-door the leaflets was required. The production of the video could have been outsourced either to other party members in the country or to be undertaken by a commercial company. I also detect a reluctance to also engage in the Scottish Independence Referendum debate at a time when the opportunity of discussing politics is being opened up by it now. I hope this changes the nearer we come to the actual vote. But surely we can already be preparing a much needed pamphlet on the futility of nationalism and producing leaflets for yes and no events. If not in person at least we should be making serious attempts to have a virtual presence on referendum websites and discussion lists and blogs to raise our profile. Without continual advance preparatory work, we should not be surprised when our public meetings at the time of the referendum attracts few visitors and little interest. The Socialist Party has the problem that very few know what we stand for but we become an irrelevancy if no-body knows that we actually exist !!
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