Why I think that something is wrong with current socialism movement…???

[windrunner]

 

Hi, human beings! Socialists or whoever… it doesn't matter. We are all human beings at first place

I am not the British citizen. But I think that the UK is most polite, most friendly and one of the most tolerate country in the world. I don't know if something can change it in the future, but I hope that UK nation will save and bear its culture for forever.

I am realist and practical person. At the same time I have dreams about social oriented world coming true.

But how can one achieve that?

I have 80% working answer. But fighting back with government and protest againgst private companies do not include in that.

You can suspect me, that I am capitalist agent send here to misguide you from your views.

This is actually true, apart from the fact that I am capitalist agent.

 

Protest or fight back can change things but not fundamentally. (Sometimes if you can accamulate all nation attenton it works, but only in this case. In other cases company can just hire new people. There are enough people who need jobs) 

What I am suggesting instead can be represented by plan with steps. No aggresion, only peacefull bee like work towards realisation of main goals. I said I am realist, and also I am engineer. This steps addressed not only for UK socialists parties, but for all poeple who want to live in better society:

1. You have "Socialism" web side already. Now next step should be to create "Social Live Country" website,  with "live" meaning "online", and "live" adj as well.

2. One or group then should create new Live constitution. Starting – "The most important is people. People should be protected from all of the dangers…"

3. There should not be police anymore. instead – People protecters. Especially it is relevant to the US and some Europeanian countries (where police protect not ordinar people, but rights of rich people when ordinar people protest against unfairity). First it is important to create this idealogy online.

4. Next – city. One or group of economists (Yes. I said economists, since until we still live in Capitalistic oriented coutnry – we deal wit money) should calculate how much it would take to buy materials available on market. (market it is good place in all capitalistic countries you can buy something very cheaply)

Most important objective at the first year is to create independent self sufficient city for 100/1000 people. it will be protytype. One will need energy supply solar panels, average wind turbines, heaters.

City should consist not from big buildings, but frame houses like what were created in Canada. One faсtory in Russia (I don't know about UK, since I am coming from post soviet country, with wild capitalism right know) produce relatvely cheap carbone wallpapers that can make house sustain even earthquaqe.

Best choice for cold countries is heat water supply form Heat Energy centre. But there is no such thing in the UK right now. That's why heaters should be used.

How city will run – food production centre shoud be built in the middle, then food should be transportated by conveer system to each house.

Automation of production releaves people from manual work. But we still buy products created in fabrics. Instead it should be free.

In fact almost every people need becomes free. Medicine, education, food, housing. And NO taxes at all. Actually why do country need taxes if it can print its currency by itself. Not by private bankers.

Ok. Next highly aumomatized system is priority. People who study controllers now what I am talking about. People first should create machines that are able to create other machines that creates production (for example these frame houses). If we have machines that are able to create other machine – most job is almost done.

People should stop trying to create human like intelegent robot. What the point of that. Instead distance controlled robots should be created. They are far more simple. However they are used not in social sector, but to kill people from air. You do not need upright walking with them, tracked or wheeled platform is just fine. With this, next thing is camera and hand manipulators.

And this is where planned economy (should I call it strategy) have its benefits. Instead of building limited number of products, and wait on market responce, create enough robots for every house.

One can seat at home and control robot from distance. This is the way how work in dust or dirty place can be done.

Tracked robot can costs you a lot in capitalist economy, but if made by machines and in social oriented system, it can be produced big huge numbers and cost nothing.

I should stop here. Believe me or not I have in my mind a lot of ideas related to city. What should be created finally is city that is independent and can reproduce itself. (copy and paste)

Now, somebody can be mad on me and ask what drugs I am consuming. But don't forget that it was British ingeneers that created a lot of famous Aby Dabi buildings. 

This plan is fully achieavable at the present time in 3-5 years. By fully, I mean ABSOLUTELY. This city should be first habitated by scientist and enginners. After it is possible to copy or reproduce it, then most unprotected people shoudl live there. Children and old people first. If everything are created not step by step, but in parallel, then it will be next decade when we can face fundamentally new society.

5. One need to think about  electronic bonuses and onling voting. Online voting should be secured as it is the case with bank cards.

Every person should have "day food"delivered each day (milk, eggs, bread, juice and other food) dependent on size of person jsut by presing button. But apart from that, if someone wants lasagna or caviar, he should pay electronic bonuses. How he can achive that – just by working. And work will be creative in most cases. apart from controlling robots from distance.

6. Where we will find money for all of that? At first step one will need money. After government (consisted of people who are willing to work in new management system) is created, then we should start collecting gold. It is not secret that gold reserve is foundation of any succeseful country today. Amount of every gram gathered should display online on countriy's website.

7. There are far more steps to consider. But by now, you can already see in what direction I am moving.

 

As I adult I there were times in my live when I could not find motivation. But this what is above is definetely motivates me. I hope it will do with you.

[windrunner]

Nobody replied here. so I just add some other things to consider: We need online laboratory. We need organise ourselves – some people work, some sleep  – then some sleep, some work.Who can work at first steps, if our members at work at a day time? First is students, next are people who have free time.Rememer, that never ever other goals was and will be so important for humanity as it is the case with listed ones.

[alanjjohnstone]

Here is another model you might wish to consider. A plan fully achievable right now, if the majority of people want it.  http://www.countercurrents.org/johnstone020514.htm

[twc]

wrote:

You can suspect me, that I am capitalist agent send here to misguide you from your views.  This is actually true, apart from the fact that I am capitalist agent.

Thank you for your honesty—not the capitalist agent bit, which you meant as a joke, but your honest aim to misguide the Party from its views.  Many people invade this site on a similar mission, but are less open about it.You have laid out your political case and political program absolutely clearly, even though English is not your first language.  There are no grounds for misunderstanding.Unfortunately, your political purpose and political program are totally incompatible with the Party’s established purpose [its Object] and the Party’s established political program [its Declaration of Principles], and so has no place at all in a Party based on ours.  You will find ours here http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/our-object-and-declaration-principlesStudy them, and you will understand that, if the Party were to accept your political purpose and adopt your political program instead of its own political purpose and political program, it would destroy itself.  Then you really would have achieved your aim of misguiding the Party, but misguiding it into oblivion.It is therefore totally impossible for the Party to take on board your own political purpose and political program, and so no meaningful political conversation with you can proceed on their basis.I suggest that you look further into our website, and read the Socialist Standard and SPGB pamphlets.  If, after that, you still cannot bring yourself to agree with us, then you have a moral duty to oppose us, and seek to create or join a political organization that is more amenable to adopting your political purpose and political program of action.  The Party simply can’t.As far as I am concerned, we have met an impenetrable brick wall, and that is the end of the matter.

[jondwhite]

Have you looked at Jacque fresco's Venus project? It's similar to this.

[windrunner]

twc wrote:

wrote:

You can suspect me, that I am capitalist agent send here to misguide you from your views.  This is actually true, apart from the fact that I am capitalist agent.

Thank you for your honesty—not the capitalist agent bit, which you meant as a joke, but your honest aim to misguide the Party from its views.  Many people invade this site on a similar mission, but are less open about it.You have laid out your political case and political program absolutely clearly, even though English is not your first language.  There are no grounds for misunderstanding.Unfortunately, your political purpose and political program are totally incompatible with the Party’s established purpose [its Object] and the Party’s established political program [its Declaration of Principles], and so has no place at all in a Party based on ours.  You will find ours here http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/our-object-and-declaration-principlesStudy them, and you will understand that, if the Party were to accept your political purpose and adopt your political program instead of its own political purpose and political program, it would destroy itself.  Then you really would have achieved your aim of misguiding the Party, but misguiding it into oblivion.It is therefore totally impossible for the Party to take on board your own political purpose and political program, and so no meaningful political conversation with you can proceed on their basis.I suggest that you look further into our website, and read the Socialist Standard and SPGB pamphlets.  If, after that, you still cannot bring yourself to agree with us, then you have a moral duty to oppose us, and seek to create or join a political organization that is more amenable to adopting your political purpose and political program of action.  The Party simply can’t.As far as I am concerned, we have met an impenetrable brick wall, and that is the end of the matter.

The problem with current approach is that it will never work. Sorry for my bad grammar. My mistakes are due to my english and fast writing to imprint here what is in my head. Don't be conservative! If Socialist party continue be so, right wing will always fight  left wing (this is actually to 2 extremes). Instaed be more flexible, more sensible, and mor realistic – and people can agree with Socialism eventually.People are not ideal. They want be better than others. Actually a lot of them are quite primitive in terms of what they want (may be it is not the case in UK). Some people dream just to be rich do you know that?But what is important for us is that people look for better place/conditions to live. They saw what socialism looks like in Cuba and Russia examples. Thus, they would not be eager in most cases to fight for something that failed. I am talking about not "dreaming" people as might be case with most here and me as well, but about people with down to earth objectives.That's why we need to create something simple and working. I saw "donate" link here. But I can't see something new for me here. For what I should donate very realistic and constructive plan. Do you believe that somebody will allow to nationalize everything today? It is radiculous.

[windrunner]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Here is another model you might wish to consider. A plan fully achievable right now, if the majority of people want it.  http://www.countercurrents.org/johnstone020514.htm

 I read and saw some realistic examples. Actally it can be implemented with system that I proposed

[alanjjohnstone]

Capitalism has already created all the necessary prerequisites for socialism. Years ago the task of socialising food distribution in any country would have been formidable, requiring the establishment of social control over endless thousands of independent small retailers and suppliers; today, most people obtain their food supplies from four or five big outlets. The supermarkets are already a model of efficient central planning. It is planning with no democratic control or scrutiny, and the whole operation is aimed at realising maximum profits rather than at the general welfare; but the mechanisms of procurement and logistics of distribution are there. All we need to do is expropriate the owners and turn the work of administration and decision-making over to the various organs of participatory democracy. We take hold, we adapt and we modify and we re-use…recycling capitalism into something different, not re-packaging into another brand of the same! You have invited us to join you, we are already an organisation that perhaps shares much of your aspirations. You should join the World Socialist Movement. The technical details of applying the vital tenet “from each according to ability, to each according to need”  can still be debated and discussed. Futurology are broad brush-strokes and present just a sketchy outline but an important one. The pressing situation right now is how to achieve the position of being able to implement our model, what are the most efficacious means and methods to change the present society for a new one. Our outlook is based on collective, political action involving us in activity to capture the State and dismantle it along with capitalism. 

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