We need to talk about Bernie
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He has already capitulated to the same things that he was opposing on his campaign, he is going to be part of the killing machine of the US government.His career as an honest politician has been thrown in the trash can, and probably his whole career is over because more than 40% of the peoples what were following him are not going to vote for Hillary Clinton
Sanders with his endorsement of Hilarity Clinton is trying to turn a lemon into lemonade but a lemon is still a lemon.
Kshama Sawant of the Trotskyist Socialist Alternative disavows Sanders endorsement of Clinton and instead endorses the Green Party's Jill Steinhttp://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/13/bernie-sanders-abandons-the-revolution/
The main problem is not Donald Trump, that is only a political excuse in order to ask the workers to vote for another sector of the ruling class of the US represented by the Democratic Party, and to place in power their own class enemies and their own exploiters, it makes no difference if they vote for the Republican or the Democratic Party. It is only a vicious cycle, that has been repeated for many yearsThe main purpose of the alliance between Sanders and Clinton is to bring the young workers, and students to the electoral circus of the Democratic Party and to destroy the movement for a third political party, or for the development or a real socialist movement within the US society The only positive thing about Bernie campaign is that the word socialism is not longer a dirty word, and 44% of the peoples are describing themselves as socialists, although most of them do not know the real definition of socialism.There is a real socialist party within the US society and its name is the World Socialist Party of the US which is the only political institution that is not promoting reformism and its aim is to replace capitalism for socialism. That is the third party that the US workers needThe cause of all the problem is capitalism, and left wingers are not going to resolve the problems either. In some countries workers have replaced left wingers with right wingers, workers for years have been oscillating like a pendulum between both political wings, and their main problems have not been resolved yet. The only solution around the world is to replace capitalism with socialismThe governor of Puerto Rico who is a right winger has taken a much better stand than the so called "Marxists" of Greece when he refused to pay to the bankers and opt to pay the salaries of the teachers, public workers and to finance educations and keep the budget of the universities
There are some suggestions that although Bernie has said he would 'vote Democrat' and now 'endorse' Hillary, he hasn't 'conceded' his campaign.
jondwhite wrote:There are some suggestions that although Bernie has said he would 'vote Democrat' and now 'endorse' Hillary, he hasn't 'conceded' his campaign.He has already thrown the towel, now he is trying to convince his followers that Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party represent their interests and that she is a sugar candy, and probably, he is willing to become her vice president
mcolome1 wrote:He has already capitulated to the same things that he was opposing on his campaign, he is going to be part of the killing machine of the US government.His career as an honest politician has been thrown in the trash can, and probably his whole career is over because more than 40% of the peoples what were following him are not going to vote for Hillary ClintonCouldn't agree more. I know its perhaps naive to expect anything different but – boy! – what a disappointment Sanders has proven to be! What a sellout! Unbelievable that he should have actually endorsed Clinton. Better that he had said nothing at all than this. I think he has lost all respect as a politician and has become just another grey suit, I vaguely hoped he might be a little different from the run of mill politicians. But not so, The problem is that Sanders campaign has prompted unpredecented levels of interest in the word "socialism". Whats gonna become of that I wonder?
Many Sanders supporters are still supporting him on the grounds that he pushed Clinton to the "left" on some important issues such as limited rather than universal free education and healthcare. However, Clinton is unlikely to implement them in any serious way. The Green Party generously offered Sanders to be their presidential candidate despite all the work Jill Stein has done yet Sanders spurned them without as far as i know any sort of public statement. or acknowledgment. Even Chomsky recommends voting Green in safe Democratic states for those who wish a protest vote for third party. Has Sanders left a legacy of any form of grassroots organisation? Or has he handed it over to the Democratic Party machine? Time will tell. Robbo asks"Sanders campaign has prompted unpredecented levels of interest in the word "socialism". Whats gonna become of that I wonder?"I think we could have pushed the boat out more on the 100th anniversary of an alternative party. Nevertheless, we do have a new website orientated towards that constituency Robbo says may now exist. But it will have to improve its presence since i can't find a link to it. Some post it for meso i can list its link as a favouriteSince it is an unofficial WSM website perhaps it could include a wider range of contributors to attract more visitors. I know i will be placing my head on the chopping block but there may be more of a case for a World In Common type of socialist website than a formal party one. Maybe Robbo should contact Stefan and see where they can cooperate where there is an overlap in North America
This s the most charitable explanation of Saunders strategy i have read on the internet. Make up your own mind if it is viable and can be successful. "If Sanders had gone third party, split the votes and then Trump got elected, it would have divided the left and set back the momentum and gains the Sanders/progressive movement has made another 10 years. The center of America would blame the progressive movement for Trump's victory and align with the centrist dems for fear of repeats. Idealists may love a martyr, but in this case, 'standing for principle' does not make up for the disastrous real-world consequences which would harm our movement's long term goals. Bernie is doing what he thinks is best for achieving his long list of policy goals over the next 8 years. As activists, Bernie and the movement has more leverage to influence Hillary than Trump. It is simply a smart and practical decision.Being a martyr, you get to feel good about yourself and how you 'stayed pure' but you walk 100 steps back from your goal when Trump and other far right politicians get elected and they don't give a shit about your protests against climate change, police brutality, universal healthcare, income inequality – the list goes on.By supporting Hillary and not going third party, he retains and builds on his leverage with the party, while the socialist/progressive gains we made in the last year are allowed to continue to build up power and momentum. There are also the short-term advantages for the coming Democratic convention, which have been written about elsewhere.By 2020, perhaps the movement will be strong enough to launch a third party or Democratic challenge to Hillary, and by that time, if we stay focused and all don't scramble back to our homes in despair and defeat, we can continue to organize for down-ballot progressives to win seats from the city to state levels. With that kind of bottom up power, we can continue to advance our goals."http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/why-did-bernie-endorse-hillary-knowing-he-was-the-same-person-as-the-day-before/
He did not push Hillary Clinton to any new stand, or to the left, she is standing where she has been standing for many years, she is the darling of a very reactionary sector of the US ruling class, and they are the ones financing her, the same hawks that financed her husband. The difference between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is that he has not killed anybody yetBarack Obama promised to bring the moon down to the earth during his campaign and the single payment for Healthcare services, to close the prison of Guantanamo Bay, and many others failed promises that he never complied withMost US presidents, politician and state official are a bunch of charlatan and vagabond, and that will include Bernie Sanders who is now backing a war criminal, like all the prior ones.Al Capone would be able to do the same job, and during the Great Repression he created restaurants serving soups to the poor peoples, and the unemployed In the USA anything is called leftism and anything is called socialism or communism, or liberalism. A person or a group fighting against a landlord on a rent increase is view as a communist or a leftistBarack Obama who is a reactionary and a right winger has been called a communist and left winger, as well Jimmy Carter was called a communist, and the New York Times is considered a communist newspaper. Most peoples do not understand that even Vladimir Lenin can not be considered as a socialist or a communist.Hillary Clinton was called a communist by the Cuban right wingers because she went to Cuba when she was young together with some brigades that worked in the sugar productions Many peoples are still following Sanders because they are attached to the undemocratic concept of the leader, that is something very particular in the USA society, and most peoples believe that a president is going to resolve all their problem, but socialists ( no left wingers ) know that there is not any president, or any leader able to alter the economical base of the capitalist society
alanjjohnstone wrote:This s the most charitable explanation of Saunders strategy i have read on the internet. Make up your own mind if it is viable and can be successful. "If Sanders had gone third party, split the votes and then Trump got elected, it would have divided the left and set back the momentum and gains the Sanders/progressive movement has made another 10 years. The center of America would blame the progressive movement for Trump's victory and align with the centrist dems for fear of repeats. Idealists may love a martyr, but in this case, 'standing for principle' does not make up for the disastrous real-world consequences which would harm our movement's long term goals. Bernie is doing what he thinks is best for achieving his long list of policy goals over the next 8 years. As activists, Bernie and the movement has more leverage to influence Hillary than Trump. It is simply a smart and practical decision.Being a martyr, you get to feel good about yourself and how you 'stayed pure' but you walk 100 steps back from your goal when Trump and other far right politicians get elected and they don't give a shit about your protests against climate change, police brutality, universal healthcare, income inequality – the list goes on.By supporting Hillary and not going third party, he retains and builds on his leverage with the party, while the socialist/progressive gains we made in the last year are allowed to continue to build up power and momentum. There are also the short-term advantages for the coming Democratic convention, which have been written about elsewhere.By 2020, perhaps the movement will be strong enough to launch a third party or Democratic challenge to Hillary, and by that time, if we stay focused and all don't scramble back to our homes in despair and defeat, we can continue to organize for down-ballot progressives to win seats from the city to state levels. With that kind of bottom up power, we can continue to advance our goals."http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/why-did-bernie-endorse-hillary-knowing-he-was-the-same-person-as-the-day-before/The reality shows something different of what has been said in this article. It is known that Hillary Clinton became the presidential nominee of the Democratic party based on frauds and vote suppression made by the Democratic party, and the backward electoral process of the US which can be used to manipulate favoritism, and without that Bernie Sanders could have become the nominee, and as an independent he could have also obtained more votes, because there are more independents voters than members of the Democratic party and Republican party,Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the most unpopular candidates, which indicates that only a minority group of peoples are supporting both of them. Many polls have indicated that Bernie Sanders as an independent and as a Democratic party nominee had better opportunity of defeating Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.The third party that he is talking about is about creating another capitalist party. What the US workers need is a real socialist movement because the main problem is not Donald Trump, the main problem is capitalism, and the third political party already exists which is the World Socialist Party of the US, and they have the proper principles, any others of the left wings organizations are just advocating for more reforms
Some leaked emails published by Wikileak have shown that internally the Democratic Party played an important role to defeat and discredit Bernie Sanders in favor of the nomination of Hillary Clinton. This situation has shown that the ruling class is the one who picks their own presidential candidates favoring their own class interest, as well her VP is another candidate supported by Wall Street and the warmongers, workers just elect the preferred candidates of the capitalist class, and carry in their minds the illusion that they are living under a democracyBernie Sanders campaign and his support toward Hillary Clinton did not move her to the left as some of his supporters are indicating now, on the contrary, she is a reactionary right winger as her husband, and her whole gangs of personalities that she is planning to use if she is elected as the president of the USA
I think as you indicate, mcolome, this thread can now be justifiably re-titled "We no longer need to talk about Bernie" and concentrate upon the now more relevant Hillary Clinton 2016 topic.
alanjjohnstone wrote:I think as you indicate, mcolome, this thread can now be justifiably re-titled "We no longer need to talk about Bernie" and concentrate upon the now more relevant Hillary Clinton 2016 topic.Bernie Sanders and his so called political revolution is gone with the wind, he went back again to the Club of Millionaires known as the US Congress.Only workers as a whole can make a real political economical revolution, we do not need leaders, only sheep need leaders, with the proper subjective ideas in our minds we can overthrow this worldly economical system.We do not need philosophers, we need a coherent socialist theory in our heads
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