Wage or salary

[alanjjohnstone]

As someone who makes extensive use of our archive material, some things become very noticeable.

In nearly every article we publish we talk of "work for wage or salary".

It is repeated ad nauseum in our literature .."work for wage or salary…work for wage or salary….."

Can't we use one or the other and not be deemed imprecise. I prefer wage.

And what do we use the recompense that the self-employed in the gig economy get?

[robbo203]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

As someone who makes extensive use of our archive material, some things become very noticeable.In nearly every article we publish we talk of "work for wage or salary".It is repeated ad nauseum in our literature .."work for wage or salary…work for wage or salary….."Can't we use one or the other and not be deemed imprecise. I prefer wage.And what do we use the recompense that the self-employed in the gig economy get?

 Indeed.  Many on the Left talk of the self employed as a distinct class separate from, and outside of, the working class – the so called petit bourgeoisie or small capitalists in the traditonal sense – although more recent usage e.g Nico Poulantzas 's  – widens the meaning of that term to include also  the non productive salariat. e.g.  bureaucrats of all kinds. I dont find that argument particularly persuasive,  As a self employed person I regard myself to be fully a member of the working class.  The notion that I am somehow a member of the (petit) bourgeosise by virtue of the fact that I own small sums of capital – to wit, a 7 year old strimmer, 3 chainsaws and an assortment of garden tools – is frankly laughable considering that many blue collar workers on a regular waged income – probably possess a lot more capital tucked away in various financial investment schemes and savings accounts than I have ever had! But if I dont technically earn a wage perhaps the old Marxian slogan "abolition of the wages system" needs to be re-jigged to be made more relevant to workers like me

[rodshaw]

I think that wage and salary are commonly understood to cover different types of income, the latter being more 'middle class' than the former, probably paid monthly rather than weekly. By using both we include both types of worker.Self-employed income is a bit more problematic and to include it we'd probably have to use more words not less. Unless we used 'income' to cover everything. But then we'd probably have to use more words explaining that we excluded capitalist income, or income from shares etc.Pensioners are another category not strictly being paid a 'wage or salary' (although we regard a pension as deferred wages, which in itself takes more explaining).Rod

[robbo203]

rodshaw wrote:

I think that wage and salary are commonly understood to cover different types of income, the latter being more 'middle class' than the former, probably paid monthly rather than weekly. By using both we include both types of worker.Self-employed income is a bit more problematic and to include it we'd probably have to use more words not less. Unless we used 'income' to cover everything. But then we'd probably have to use more words explaining that we excluded capitalist income, or income from shares etc.Pensioners are another category not strictly being paid a 'wage or salary' (although we regard a pension as deferred wages, which in itself takes more explaining).Rod

 I guess "earned income"  would cover every contingency but then "abolition of earned income" doesnt have quite the same ring to it as "abolition of the wages system"…

[rodshaw]

robbo203 wrote:

I guess "earned income"  would cover every contingency but then "abolition of earned income" doesnt have quite the same ring to it as "abolition of the wages system"…

And it implies that unearned income is ok!

[Anonymous]

Wages earners, salary earners, petit bourgoise, small business peoples, middle class, blue collars workers, white collars workers, brown collars workers,   they are all members of the working class, we are all modern slaves with the freedom to elect our own mastersLike Robbo has said there are many workers  who have a bunch of power tools like him in their garage, and they have to work in order to survive, otherwise they will die.There are many wages slaves driving cars, paying rent to a bank,( they think they own a house )  and carrying credit cards in their wallet, or running their own busines. At the time of economical crisis we will fall in the same hole.The crisis of 2008 proved that they are just economical ilusions created by the capitalist society.  It is like the concept of classes, sociologists have created too many subdivisions, This is a society divided in Proletariat and bourgeois. Period

[Anonymous]

I think having to work for  a wage, salary or fee is the determining class factor. I think also referring to wage disputes which have often been settled below the demands made at the time, but with pension allowances adjusted upwards, can underline the 'deferred wages' argument we put. Employers used this but subsequently reneged on the deals in the crisis times, raiding the pension pots.

[alanjjohnstone]

Research by the Social Market Foundation revealed four out of five low-paid workers remained stuck in low pay even after 10 years in self-employment.Little different from wage-slavery. 

[Anonymous]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Research by the Social Market Foundation revealed four out of five low-paid workers remained stuck in low pay even after 10 years in self-employment.Little different from wage-slavery. 

Social classes can not be determinated by the income, it has to be according to the  relationship with the means of productions. 

[robbo203]

The data suggests that 1 in 7 workers are self employed in the UK.  Historically this fraction has been declining giving credence to Marx's speculations about the petit or petty (the latter is the english vulgarisation of the  french word for small) bourgeoisie being progressively absorbed into the wage earning proletariat – although more rcently this trend has reversed and seems to be associated with the effects of recession.Here in Spain I think the pecentage is slightly higher and while the official unemplyment rate is also comparatively high, it must be borne in mind that there is a quite a flourishing black economy which is not possible – at least to the same extent – in a closely monitored Big Brother  state like the UK. This would tend to bump up the numbers of self employed

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