Votes for us
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It’s a shame it doesn’t give you actual numbers and just gives you the bar chart. But It really does look as though Danny could catch the UKIP/Fresh Choice guy. Which would be nice, give us a bit of bragging rights or whatever.
Indeed.However, with just over half the votes counted this is how it looks in the Lambeth and Southwark constituency:- http://www.londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/results-and-past-elections/live-results-2012?contest=34 And with over 80% counted in Merton and Wandsworth:- http://www.londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/results-and-past-elections/live-results-2012?contest=35
I admit I’m perhaps being optimistic it would take a late surge to catch up. What sort of numbers are we hoping for? We got 1500 odd last time. But I thought I heard that the target this time was 4000. Is that combined or…..?
I appreciate Robin’s contribution, but think religion is on the decline anyway. Even if declining religious numbers were queuing up, I agree with the principle of barring them. He’s right that they should orbit around the party (on mailing lists for example) since people develop ideas in inchoate and uneven ways.
Actual result for Merton & Wandsworth is here on our election blog. 1343 or 0.9% is about we expected. This compares with 1714 or 1.0% for the Left List (as the SWP called themselves for the election) at the last GLA election there 4 years ago. Counting is complete in Lambeth & Southwark and should be announced soon.
Lambeth & Southwark result just announced here. We (Danny) got 2938 or 1.9%. Which is more we got last time (1588) and more than the Left List did too (1956)
i read on earlier blog that the ballot paper “only contains the names and emblems of the parties”Once more, a reason for us to acquire a recognisable party logo to have to place upon the ballot
ALB wrote:Lambeth & Southwark result just announced here. We (Danny) got 2938 or 1.9%. Which is more we got last time (1588) and more than the Left List did too (1956)4281 seems like a very satisfactory vote over the two constituencies, no doubt assisted in Lambeth by our continual presence in elections over recent years and the “big smoke” video.
I don’t believe it. They’ve now announced how many votes were cast in the two areas for the London-wide lists and in both we got more votes than TUSC (the list support by both Militant and the SWP) did in the list vote (whereas I’d have expected it to be the other way round).In Lambeth & Southwark they got 1891 or 1.2% and in Merton & Wandsworth 904 or 0.6%. So quite a few of those who voted for us for the constituency did not vote for TUSC for the London-wide list (1047 in the first and 439 in the second). I don’t know what this means — except that offering attractive reforms doesn’t necessarily get you more votes than standing just for socialism.
ALB wrote:Here is a video interview the on-line London magazine, the Big Smoke, did with Daniel Lambert, our candidate in Lambeth & Southwark. Technical difficulties prevented them putting it up earlier, but better late than never.http://www.bigsmoke.org.uk/?p=77382I see the video got reposted on the I Acknowledge The Class War Exists Facebook Page. That’s a big deal. To use the jargon, it has eighty thousand ‘likes
Quote:This hope for an “immediate revenge of the Commune” is not a mere illusion of the fugitives, but a necessary article of faith with men, who have their mind set upon being “men of action” at a time when there is absolutely nothing to be done in the sense which they represent, that of an immediate outbreak.Nevermind. Since a start will be made soon, they hold that “the time has come, when every fugitive, who still has any life in him, should declare himself.”And so the thirty-three declare that they are: 1) atheists; 2) communists,; 3) revolutionaries.Our Blanquists have this in common with the Bakounists, that they wish to represent the most advanced, most extreme line. For this reason they often choose the same means as the Bakounists, although they differ from them in their aims. The point with them is, then, to be more radical in the matter of atheism than all others. Fortunately it requires no great heroism to be an atheist nowadays. Atheism is practically accepted by the European working men’s parties, although in certain countries it may at times be of the same caliber as that of a certain Bakounist, who declared that it was contrary to all socialism to believe in God, but that it was different with the virgin Mary, in whom every good socialist ought to believe. Of the vast majority of the German socialist working men it may even be said that mere atheism has been outgrown by them. This purely negative term does not apply to them any more, for they maintain no longer merely a theoretical, but rather a practical opposition to the belief in God. They are simply done with God, they live and think in the real world, for they are materialists. This will probably be the case in France also. But if it were not, then nothing would be easier than to see to it that the splendid French materialist literature of the preceding century is widely distributed among the laborers, that literature; in which the French mind has so far accomplished its best in form and content, and which, with due allowance for the condition of the science of their day, still stands infinitely high in content, while its form has never been equalled since.But this cannot suit our Blanquists. In order to show that they are the most radical, God is abolished by them by decree, as in 1793: “May the Commune for ever free humanity from this ghost of past misery (God), from this cause of its present Misery.” (The non-existing God a cause!) There is no room in the Commune for priests; every religious demonstration, every religious organisation, must be forbidden.”And this demand for a transformation of people into atheists by order of the star chamber is signed by two members of the Commune, who had opportunity enough to learn in the first place, that a multitude of things may be ordered on paper without being carried out, and in the second place, that persecutions are the best means of promoting disliked convictions. So much is certain, that the only service, which may still be rendered to God today, is that of declaring atheism an article of faith to he enforced and of outdoing even Bismarck’s anti-Catholic laws by forbidding religion altogether.Is it possible that we too are trying to be too radical?My position on this is one of apathy, I don’t really care if we allowed people with certain silly beliefs in. Unless of course they are very religious like “Jesus was a socialist and so I must be one” Or hold reactionary views on morality, homophobia, sexism and such.
ALB wrote:I should have know where Robin would derail this discussion to. He does it every time he gets the chance on the WSM Forum.Hardly , Adam. How often have you been over on the WSM forum lately anyway? Last I recall I made a contribution on a thread concerned with coops, taking up the cudgels against Bob Howes which was very much to the point. Besides you yourself introduced the topic of religion, referring to the religious supporter of the SPGB, and Alan chipped in with a suggestion that this supporter be sent my and WiC’s contact details. It was only then that I addressed the religion question and, indeed, why not? Why be so rigid about it? I bet a good proportion of the votes Danny got were from people with religious beliefs. You complaining or summat? Darren – I did not suggest there was some massive queue of religious believers just waiting to join the SPGB. Thats precisely my point!. The vast majority of them who, when they learn about the religious ban, just don’t bother to wait any longer; they disappear from sight never to be heard of again! That said, I personally know a few individuals who haven’t quite disappeared, who would love to join but cannot because of their religious beliefs, something which perplexes and grieves them in equal measureDave – your post consists of a number of unfounded assumptions and non sequiturs, True, belief in an after life is incompatible with the idea that ” we only live once” but what has that got to do with the question of whether you can be a socialist and hold religious beliefs? It is no more true that a socialist must, by definition, believe we only live once in order to be a socialist – any more than believing we only live once must make one a socialist. There are plenty of pro capitalists who believe we only live once. You cannot seriously suggest here that you cannot be a socialist in the sense of understanding and wanting socialism and hold religious beliefs. I don’t think this is even the Party’s view on the matter, is it?: We all know of religious sympathisers of the Party who are a living refutation of this claim. . Frederich Engels in his piece entitled a “Description of Recently Founded Communist Colonies Still in Existence” (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/10/15.htm) wrote thusWhen one talks to people about socialism or communism, one very frequently finds that they entirely agree with one regarding the substance of the matter and declare communism to be a very fine thing; “but”, they then say, “it is impossible ever to put such things into practice in real life”. One encounters this objection so frequently that it seems to the writer both useful and necessary to reply to it with a few facts which are still very little known in Germany and which completely and utterly dispose of this objection. For communism, social existence and activity based on community of goods, is not only possible but has actually already been realised in many communities in America and in one place in England, with the greatest success, as we shall see…..The reader will discover that most of the colonies that will be described in this article had their origins in all kinds of religious sects most of which have quite absurd and irrational views on various issues; the author just wants to point out briefly that these views have nothing whatsoever to do with communism. It is in any case obviously a matter of indifference whether those who prove by their actions the practicability of communal living believe in one God, in twenty or in none at all; if they have an irrational religion, this is an obstacle in the way of communal living, and if communal living is successful in real life despite this, how much more feasible must it be with others who are free of such inanities. Of the more recent colonies, almost all are in any case quite free of religious nonsense, and nearly all the English Socialists are despite their great tolerance quite without religion, for which very reason they are particularly ill-spoken ‘ of and slandered in sanctimonious England. However, when it comes to providing proof, even their opponents have to admit that there is no foundation for all the evil things that are said of them (my emphasis) Would that some SPGBers took a similarly relaxed view on the matter!You also say that “The SPGB takes a non-theistic, materialist approach to things, in particular to society and social change. Religious people believe in the existence of at least one supernatural entity that intervenes in nature and human affairs. “, Not necessarily. Some religious people don’t believe in divine intervention at all and are Deists rather than Theists. But even a theist can, in practice, take a thoroughly materialist approach to society and social change. A Christian scientist likewise does not necessarily abandon his/her scientific methodology just because s/he is a ChristianYour perspective on the matter is a little too rigid and cut and dried
imposs1904 wrote:I see the video got reposted on the I Acknowledge The Class War Exists Facebook Page. That’s a big deal. To use the jargon, it has eighty thousand ‘likes’It was reposted by a Canadian comrade.
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/yeeeesss-spgb-polls-nearly-3000-…I am indeed grateful to General Grumble for pointing this out…………totally incredible achievement……….what does it portend…………the SPGB candidate Daniel Lambert got 2,900 votes……………the comrades long march to socialism through the ballot box has lift off….hats off to the lads and lasses at Clapham high street!!
UPDATE from Ian Bone ******the more i think about it the more wonderful this result is……..the SPGB standing on a pure platform of utopian socialism through the ballot box have outpolled TUSC with its reformist anti-cuts position. Even the SPGB can’t work it out…….
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