Tory Legislation on ‘Extremism’

[SocialistPunk]

The ruling class may be unable to switch off democratic conciousness, but they certainly have managed to turn down the dimmer switch of  trade union conciousness among the workers, despite the gains their ancestor's struggles have won them.

[Ozymandias]

I think it's about the only thing that cunt Lenin said that was right. It probably will take 500 years for workers to achieve class consciousness at the rate things are going.But he was wrong about Trades union consciousness because clearly they can no longer achieve even that. 

[moderator1]

Ozymandias wrote:

I think it's about the only thing that cunt Lenin said that was right. It probably will take 500 years for workers to achieve class consciousness at the rate things are going.But he was wrong about Trades union consciousness because clearly they can no longer achieve even that. 

1st warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

[SocialistPunk]

ALB wrote:

Yes. And it's maintained by their continuing support for it. The ruling class can't just switch it off. Political democracy is not just a matter of laws. It's a reflection of a level of political consciousness already attained.By the way, what's that Nazi site you refer us to? I agree they should be concerned about these new laws being used against them. We'd oppose that too.

Do you think the ruling class incapable of manipulating the political conciousness of us workers?

[Anonymous]

ALB wrote:

Yes. And it's maintained by their continuing support for it. 

 SPGB Support? 

[ALB]

Of course. We always have.

[alanjjohnstone]

I find this sort of "resistance" encouraging and something to be applauded. We don't need to be actually amidst it, but report it as something positive can be our contribution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pfu8hOVGPyk

[SocialistPunk]

ALB wrote:

Yes. And it's maintained by their continuing support for it. The ruling class can't just switch it off. Political democracy is not just a matter of laws. It's a reflection of a level of political consciousness already attained.

SocialistPunk wrote:

The ruling class may be unable to switch off democratic consciousness, but they certainly have managed to turn down the dimmer switch of trade union consciousness among the workers, despite the gains their ancestor's struggles have won them.

SocialistPunk wrote:

Do you think the ruling class incapable of manipulating the political consciousness of us workers?

Don't mean to be pushy, but a statement was made that basically says, the ruling class can't control the political consciousness of us workers. Yet there is evidence to the contrary in the demise of the Trade Union movement. Another example where workers have been led to accept the reduction of the welfare state, is found in the flood of tv programs about benefit scroungers, along side politicians misinforming the public about the figures. We are being manipulated.So how hard would it be to convince the public that in order to be safe from terrorists, we had to relinquish certain "minor freedoms" such as advocating socialist/communist revolutions etc? 

[ALB]

There's not really a contradiction. The word I used was "switch off". This suggests something sudden. Certainly, as long as people support capitalism, they can be persuaded to support measures that the capitalist class of their country favour, e.g war and measures aimed at "extremists" and "scroungers" (as groups they don't identify with).It is true that over time as the older generation dies off a particular lesson learned by the working class can recede, e.g perhaps trade union consciousness. But this would be a very gradual change. It would have to be the same with a regression in democratic consciousness. This is today very well entrenched in the working class in this country and it doesn't just apply to right to vote, etc. It also applies in non-political contexts as over how to run clubs and voluntary associations. I still say this democratic consciousness cannot just be switched off. I don't think the working class could be manipulated out of it either, even if the ruling class tried or wanted to.

[SocialistPunk]

I accept your point about the "switch off" ALB, thanks for getting back to me.I'm not so sure about your confidence that we couldn't be manipulated into a position where we accepted certain restrictions to our freedom of expression in order to be safe from other "extremists". Your point about workers supporting measures aimed at undesirables could easily be directed at revolutionary socialist/communist and anarchist groups, if the establishment thought they posed a threat to the status quo.I wouldn't underestimate the power the ruling class have at manipulation.  

[alanjjohnstone]

I've drawn attention to the thin edge of the wedge regards the use of anti-hatred laws to stifle debate about Israel in Canada. I now read about the Northern Territories in Australia new police powers.The Northern Territory's "paperless arrest" laws are perhaps the antithesis of what the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody had in mind.Introduced late last year, the laws give police the power to lock someone up for four hours for minor offences like making undue noise; swearing in public; or keeping a front yard untidy. A person locked up under these powers has no effective opportunity to challenge their detention or to ask a court to release them. The police essentially act as both judge and jury.Those paperless arrest laws have already been used an extraordinary amount of times – more than 700 times in their first three months of operation. It also showed that they are having a disproportionate impact: more than 75 per cent of people arrested have been Aboriginal.This inequality is perhaps unsurprising. In the Northern Territory, Aboriginal people comprise about 30 per cent of the general population, yet more than 85 per cent of the prison population. The Northern Territory's imprisonment rate is around three times the national average, and closer to America's than any other Australian jurisdiction.Whatever the government says about the supposed limitations of restrictive laws….it's a lie. 

[ALB]

An unexpected ally? Rand Paul:http://www.dailydot.com/politics/rand-paul-senate-usa-freedom-act-fails-again-section-215/

[alanjjohnstone]

The unions talk the talk but will they walk the walkhttp://rt.com/uk/273331-unite-union-illegal-strike/

[Anonymous]

gnome wrote:

Vin wrote:

 

Quote:

The new legislation is expected to include:introducing Banning Orders for extremist organisations who seek to undermine democracy or use hate speech in public places, but fall short of proscriptionnew Extremism Disruption Orders to restrict people who seek to radicalise young peoplepowers to close premises where extremists seek to influence others 

You don't think this could be applied to us?

No, if only because we do not "seek to undermine democracy or use hate speech in public places". Quite the opposite in fact. It should be fairly obvious the sort of organisations that these measures would be used against. 

 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/15/green-party-peer-put-on-database-of-extremists-by-police

[Anonymous]

I read somewhere years ago that one man who eventually with others gave birth to the old Austrian party which was companion party to us carried on with his literature stall under the entire rule of the Nazi Party, and was simply ignored and never stopped. All this while Bolsheviks were arrested and placed in Dachau.He was obviously considered no risk whatsoever.

[Author]

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