The WSM/SPGB strategy in 2014

[steve colborn]

Hi Adam. I understand what you say, "However, these days, since every member votes on Conference motions the vote on them is virtually a Party Poll so a formal Party Poll is likely to have the same result. Though not necessarily since a Party Poll motion is subject to a much wider discussion and reflection by Party members."I tend to go with the last sentence of this paragraph. It would certainly appear that all it takes to overturn a decision not to the liking of some, is to continually bring it up at conference, over and over again. The restrictions on the use of the full name of the Party, was welcom to me at the time but as you say, has been gradually whittled away.Those of us who were delighted with the result of the Party Poll, should perhaps re engage and try to get the Party Poll result reinstated! I would certainly support such a move.

[steve colborn]

By the way, if anyone is thinking about replying that a decision has now been reached and we should let sleeping dogs lie, think on this. If the outcome of the Party Poll had been accepted and not regurgitated at conference, we would not be engaged on this thread. Whats sauce for the goose etc etc!It must be galling to those Branches and members expelled in the 80's for not adhering to a decision made, to know that this decision is no longer in effect.

[Anonymous]

steve colborn wrote:

It must be galling to those Branches and members expelled in the 80's for not adhering to a decision made, to know that this decision is no longer in effect.

The two branches are long since defunct and virtually all of the members are dead.  That must be really galling for them.  Someone mention sleeping dogs?

ALB wrote:

It's not that important and not worth falling out over.  Let sleeping dogs lie.

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/world-socialist-movement/designs-proposed-new-head-office-signage?page=2#comment-11256

[alanjjohnstone]

Still,  Socialist Studies is being produced, at least on-line which duplicates much of our own message.http://www.socialiststudies.org.uk/socstudy93.shtmlI was out of the party when the acrimonious dispute took place so maybe i can sympathise with Steve's sentiments in having regrets that we cannot mend bridges and offer the olive branch…but on the other hand i wouldn't want to risk provoking disagreement within the present party that isn't really necessary as you say…in time, they will die out…but as some know…that is my fear for ourselves. 

[steve colborn]

It was a shame that the fall out in the 80's ended so acrimoniously. Let's ensure there is no repeat. As far as I'm concerned, members of the Party are Socialists and Comrades, more than that I could not give a flying fart about. I intend to learn from history and not let it colour my perception of either the present, or the Future.Be well all

[jondwhite]

Clause 7 of the declaration of principles states 'all political parties are but the expression of class interests, and as the interest of the working class is diametrically opposed to the interests of all sections of the master class, the party seeking working class emancipation must be hostile to every other party.'So if anyone shares our object and principles then why are they a separate organisation? What class interests do they express?

[SocialistPunk]

Thanks Adam for being patient with me on this issue. I was not privy to previous discussions on this issue earlier this year on another thread (due to my not feeling so hot after major surgery last November).Interesting to note that, as I suspected, a party poll trumps conference decisions, so that in reality the 2008, 2014 conference decisions on this matter are essentially invalid, due to the 1991 party poll. But I suppose this is only the case if party rules are meant to be taken literally.It would be interesting to here Gnomes easy argument on the issue.Now, what would happen regarding the name of the party if Scotland votes for independence? I think the great in GB is a reference to the larger landmass. I could be wrong, as it does also seem to have a glorious empire connotation as well.So, if Scotland votes for independence, technically it would put the name SPGB in an historical context, as Britain includes Scotland, England and Wales. Ironically precisely what the 1988 conference and 1991 party poll  voted for. Would the SPGB then become The Socialist Party of England and Wales? Oh dear! Or perhaps a more accurate description geographically speaking, The Socialist Party of the British Isles? And what of the Socialists in Scotland? Essentially a load of bollocks, probably what the majority in the party thought in the late eighties and early nineties, when voting to downplay the GB bit.However if Scotland does vote YES, and the party insist on retaining SPGB publically, it opens the party up for a further charge of being outdated and open to ridcule etc. Worth a thought.I've no idea if the HO fascia has been ordered, but if it hasn't ,best wait until after the Scottish independence referendum.

[Anonymous]

jondwhite wrote:

Clause 7 of the declaration of principles states 'all political parties are but the expression of class interests, and as the interest of the working class is diametrically opposed to the interests of all sections of the master class, the party seeking working class emancipation must be hostile to every other party.'So if anyone shares our object and principles then why are they a separate organisation? What class interests do they express?

This clause does not allow for two class based organisation existing at the same time. It is a big assumption that just because a party exists then it must be opposed. 'all political parties are but the expression of class interests' assumes that the SPGB is the only socialist party, which was the case when the D of P was written but may not be the case in the future.Perhaps an addendum 'unless that party is a socialist party' 

[moderator1]

Reminder:  1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

[SocialistPunk]

Looks like there are no takers, willing to answer my questions on #37.Perhaps an answer to the question regarding Scottish independence and the party name might be forthcoming. Has it even been discussed?

[alanjjohnstone]

I think the situation , SP, will be similar to Ireland…a WSP Ireland party for both Republic and Northern Ireland members and also the SPGB –  dual membership.The only thing the Scottish comrades require is to name themselves for the local electoral commission when standing in elections.. WSP (Scotland) would be my option… and all the comapnion parties following suit. The SPC I think maybe reluctant to their historical attachment to their name. The Party could remain the SP of Great Britain if it emphasises it being a geographical and not political designation but again i think i favour every party being a World Socialist Party…the Welsh branches too perhaps coming the WSP (Wales). SPEW is already taken by default by Militant. We should not automatically adopt adherence to any border changes…. But unless there is a dramatic shift in the poll figures, Scots will be voting no to separation by a margin of about  10%. Not an overwhelming endorsement of the union but suffice to put the national question on the back burner for a number of years.  

[ALB]

SocialistPunk wrote:

Perhaps an answer to the question regarding Scottish independence and the party name might be forthcoming. Has it even been discussed?1st Warning:  1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.

Try this thread instead:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/world-socialist-movement/scottish-referendum?page=1

[SocialistPunk]

Thanks Adam, wasn't aware of that thread (started chemotherapy around that time so was a little distracted), will take my questions on over there.Thanks as well Alan, but in answering me you've left yourself open to a warning for being off topic. Hope to see ya on the thread pointed out by Adam, as the stuff you mention is interesting.

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