The WSM and the future identity of the SPGB and SPC

[SocialistPunk]

gnome wrote:

SocialistPunk wrote:

The biggest reason provided for sticking to the status quo name wise, is history, or more precisely public profile. So the SPGB need to look at its public profile to see if a name change would do harm as far as that goes. In other words would a change of name to World Socialist Party (GB) loose the party potential new members. Is that at all likely?

More pertinent a question is would a change of name do more good than harm?   But in reality the name is relatively unimportant; we want workers to examine the contents of the bottle and not simply make a cursory observation of the label on it.  If that's all we think workers are capable of then we'd better drop any pretence or reference to socialism.

Hi GnomeThe only problem with what you say regarding the unimportance of name, is that your own branch seems to think a consistent image is important and name is part of image etc. Unfortunately without a solid, consistent image people don't get a chance to examine the contents.If name is unimportant, then where is the harm in adopting a World Socialist Party identity. To borrow a phrase, "It does exactly what it says on the tin."World, the planet on which we all live and share in its fortune/misfortune. Socialist, common ownership and democratic control of the worlds resources by the people of the world for the people of the world. Party, suggesting the political context. And for all those with a Great Britain fetish, we place it in its relevant place (GB) in brackets simply as location identification.As to any harm to the party, the membership is probably at its lowest ever. I also suspect, that if the Party did an up to date membership audit it would probably find less members than previously thought. As far as I'm aware Party finances are in good health. What about public profile.Just how well known is the SPGB with the British public? Alan has already suggested the Party commission a poll to find that out. I came across figures that point to there being around forty seven million registered voters in the UK. A poll could give an idea as to how many of those people may have heard of the SPGB.  Another pertinent question would also be, what harm do Party members think a change of name could do to the SPGB?

[Anonymous]

We have a name; we've had it for 110 years, and we're on our way to getting a consistent recognisable image.

[SocialistPunk]

gnome wrote:

We have a name; we've had it for 110 years, and we're on our way to getting a consistent recognisable image.

I'm glad that after 110 years the Party is on its way to getting a consistent recognisable image.Earlier you said:

gnome wrote:

But in reality the name is relatively unimportant;

[Anonymous]

SocialistPunk wrote:

I'm glad that after 110 years the Party is on its way to getting a consistent recognisable image.

So am I; in fact I'm positively delirious.

Quote:

Earlier you said:

gnome wrote:

But in reality the name is relatively unimportant;

But it's still preferable to keep the name we already have.Now if you'll excuse me I have some important party work still to do before I get my head down for the night. 

[alanjjohnstone]

Quote:

We have a name; we've had it for 110 years, and we're on our way to getting a consistent recognisable image.

Recognisable by whom, is the obvious question.While in favour of an official logo/emblem and sympathetic to a name change, i think in previous messages i qualified it by not expecting them to be quick fixes and the importance of them being integral to a broader publicity re-branding of the party which will have an impact on the way we prioritise the socialist case… and this aspect of the debate in my view is lacking in urgency by members.We need to seek out and identify our constituency, is what i am trying to say.On other threads i have offered my personal opinion on where that may lie but by no means do i consider those suggestions as 100% but simply spring-boards for others to contribute their ideas of where we should aim the direction of the party.  I have also indicated that we at this particular moment of our history we can financially afford to promote ourselves much more but this opportunity will soon be lost as our money will quickly be swallowed up on operating/running costs.But all kudos to KS branch for taking up the baton and running with a logo from the experience of actual election campaigning, rather than leaving it all to wishful thinking. It is from activity that we discover our weaknesses and strengths.

[SocialistPunk]

gnome wrote:

SocialistPunk wrote:

I'm glad that after 110 years the Party is on its way to getting a consistent recognisable image.

So am I; in fact I'm positively delirious.

Quote:

Earlier you said:

gnome wrote:

But in reality the name is relatively unimportant;

But it's still preferable to keep the name we already have.Now if you'll excuse me I have some important party work still to do before I get my head down for the night.  

If a name is unimportant, as you stated, why is it preferable to keep the existing name? There must be a reason or reasons why the existing name is preferable?

[BTSomerset]

I think the name is important if we are to develop a brand and I think it should convey what the party stands for, i.e. World Socialism.  I don't think a change of name would affect the party at all, seeing as hardly anyone outside 'hard left' politics has heard of the SPGB, and that people immediately associate Socialist Party with SPEW.  It took me ages to find the SPGB when I first became politically aware, and without a brand, I found if very difficult to link all the disparate online offerings of the SPGB.  In summary, I personally prefer World Socialist Party (GB) and a party logo, preferably not red, as red is left and we are not.  But again, well done KS branch for actually doing something, as I am well aware that my contribution at the moment is practically zero. 

[Anonymous]

BTSomerset wrote:

But again, well done KS branch for actually doing something, as I am well aware that my contribution at the moment is practically zero. 

Thanks for your words of support, Bob; the comrades of K&S spent weeks deliberating online as well as part of two branch meetings before submitting a short list of possible options to the EC for their consideration.  Our intention, as the motion outlined, was to devise a logo which was consistent both with the traditions of the Party and in keeping with the new HO fascia sign.  We think we've achieved that.The fabrication of the new fascia sign is now well under way; the construction of the background tray in red and the acronym in black enamel having been completed.  We are now awaiting the mounting of the stand-off lettering in white which will form the Party's name, the removal of the existing sign and erection of the new one which has unfortunately been delayed by a few weeks due to one of those involved having recently broken an ankle.

[SocialistPunk]

Spot on BTS (hope you are ok with BTS, if not just say).The Party needs a brand that reflects the aim of World Socialism. I can't see any valid reason that a change would be detrimental to the Party.From the experience of BTS, one name, one logo, one brand reflecting the aim would have made it easier to distinguish and locate for people who are looking for an alternative.I think some of the defensiveness when it comes to the history of the Party name, is the battle with the left wing. As if the constant squabble over who is more socialist, will somehow win converts. It's a lost cause.Let's be honest about this, what name and brand paints an image of global socialism?The Socialist Party of Great BritainorWorld Socialist Party (GB)

[SocialistPunk]

Nice tactic Gnome. If you can't provide any answers, just wheel out the, "We've already spent the money, so there", defence. 

[ALB]

BTSomerset wrote:

seeing as hardly anyone outside 'hard left' politics has heard of the SPGB,

Actually we are known well outside the hard left. Amongst the soft left too and beyond them to people who are interested in politics generally and of course labour historians. And there are many other writers, essayists and bloggers like the one Vin has drawn attention to on another thread some of whom will be ex-members. I agree that this is still only a small percentage of the population in general but it's the same minority which would be interested at first in some new (ly named) party. So why throw away the progress we have already made in getting known amongst such people?It would be bonkers to change our name and throw all this away. I mentioned before what I think is the way forward. It's to keep our official name (with its history) but emphasise more that we are part of a World Socialist Movement, a name we have also registered with the Electoral Commission and used on the ballot paper for the recent Euroelections.We have also registered "World Socialist Party (UK)" as a variant of our name and so could use this on the ballot paper now without having to change our full name.The words "World Socialism" are also on the emblem, to go against our candidates' name on the ballot paper, which is presently under consideration and which will also be registered with the Electoral Commission.It could be something like this:In any event, if we are going to have an emblem on the ballot paper (which we've not had before though we could have) for next year's general election we'll have to use some compromise like this, if only because we've not got the time before then to go through all the Conference Resolutions, Party Meetings and Party Polls that trying to change the party's name would involve.

[steve colborn]

                                      UNITE                                        FOR   This is what I would I would like to see above the                        WORLD SOCIALISM   bit.

[jondwhite]

As a nostalgia fundamentalist, we've actually had a logo for decades and used it for decades. It was designed by F.C. Watts in the Edwardian era and used on almost all our pamphlets. It has our name and also a space for a slogan, not something subsequent ones have managed to do.

[ALB]

Trouble is that since the first space flight cosmonauts noticed that longitude lines could not be seen from space

[jondwhite]

ALB wrote:

Trouble is that since the first space flight cosmonauts noticed that longitude lines could not be seen from space

I prefer to see them, not as longitudunal lines but a kind of cage in which the world is shackled, until workers realise they have nothing to lose but their chains.

[Author]

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