The WSM and the future identity of the SPGB and SPC

[SocialistPunk]

I've started this thread to discuss the issues surrounding the identities of the Socialist Party of Great Britain and Socialist Party of Canada, in the context of a growing World Socialist Movement.

On another thread there has been some discussion about the reemergence of the GB part of the Socialist Party identity. From what I gather during the eighties and nineties of the last century, there seemed to be a move toward rebranding of the SPGB towards simply The Socialist Party with the GB relegated to being used as geographical, historical and legal when required. A progressive move, though probably a response to the dwindling fortunes of the SPGB in the face of a left wing socialist onslaught.  What ever the reason, I get the impression there was a genuine desire to downplay the GB part of the SPGB identity. As proof of this desire, a 1988 conference voted to move in this direction and in 1991 a party poll also voted in favour. So it looked set for the SPGB to be known simply as The Socialist Party as often as possible.

However in recent years it seems there has been a desire to reverse the mood of the eighties and nineties in favour of using the full party title in more places than the 1988 conference decision allowed, including that of the party HO fascia. This backward trend could possibly have it's roots in the age of the party. 1904 was the 100th anniversary of the party and perhaps the retro mood of the party could be explained in part by a need to strongly identify the party as the oldest socialist party in Britain and second oldest in the world.

Whatever the reason, it is worth considering how either identities fit in with a growing World Socialist Movement. 

All other companion parties, apart from the Socialist Party of Canada, go by the title World Socialist Movement, with the name of the country serving simply as geographical reference. When the idea of world socialism spreads and groups in other countries become parties they will likewise be titled WSM.

Perhaps it is time the SPGB and SPC relinquished their fondness for age related, historical elitism and became WSM (Britain) and WSM (Canada)?

And if Scotland vote for independence, then we could have WSM (Scotland) and perhaps WSM (England), WSM (Wales) and WSM (Ireland). All one international socialist family of equals, with no claim to an elitist appearing ancestral pedigree.

[alanjjohnstone]

I think i agree with you, SP. But it should be a long and detailed debate, one where disagreements and disputes are encouraged so they may be eventually resolved. Such changes cannot to be rushed into without the commitment of convinced members and with full and proper structures tried and tested.  Re-naming ourselves, re-branding our image and re-launching ourselves, is the way to go, and we should not reflect the caractures of ourselves as a monument and not a movement. We can and have changed.Let's be honest…Just what have we got to lose? Not a lot. Sentimentality should not be a socialist principle. Technologically, with various internet tools, we can be a fully functioning World Socialist Party, using interactive communications such as Skype for committee meetings, to have video-linked conferences and decision making by online referendums. At this opportune time in our party history, we have the available funds to finance the required equipment and software to set up it all upSome have always argued that not every worker has access to the computers and the internet thereby it is an exclusive form of democracy. True enough, but so is simple literacy excluding those in the world without decent education yet  did it mean we should go back to pictures and words of a single syllable? An obligation of early socialists was self-education and need be workers created the organisations and produced the materials to assist in that task.  I have read that the average 10 year old is more computer literate than an adult…and our sights must always be on the future. Clapham no longer becomes a party Head Office but a resource and information centre. We can take the concept of the name, for at least non-electoral purposes, to WSM (London), WSM (North-East), WSM (Toronto), even breaking those down if we chose to branch level titles WSM (Mossend). 

[ALB]

It's not just sentimentality that leads us to stick to SPGB and SPC. It's history. Both parties and in both countries have a history that is more or less known to others (more in Canada in fact) so we keep these names to emphasise the continuity. The parties in NZ and Australia do not/did not have this, so they could change to WSP without losing it. All new parties, eg as in India, are adopting WS Party or Group. That makes sense to me.

[alanjjohnstone]

Quote:

It's not just sentimentality that leads us to stick to SPGB and SPC. It's history. Both parties and in both countries have a history that is more or less known to others (more in Canada in fact) so we keep these names to emphasise the continuity.

Known by who, exactly? Just what is our public profile? Couldn't we do a simple crude poll? Each branch go out in the street and ask a 100 passer-bys Who is the SPGB?, What do they stand for? How much for a professional poll?There is no need to jettison our actual history but it is a matter of evolving into something else. We don't disown our past and remove ourselves from the historic record but leave that side to our archives. On the generous side,  our claim to success is that we have survived and many did not, (ILP and SLP) but we havn't grown, have we? I would say our infuence has also declined. Didn't Jock Haston, a 30s/40s Trotskyist recommend every left-winger should attend SPGB education classes and we acquired a nickname the working class university. That aspect has disappeared i believe.( It could be revived through the web by a series of innovative videos that i sometimes suggest rather than classroom lectures which simply is history too)You know i have argued in the past that we face a demographic threat…the proportion of older members which means more infirm and less able members are increasing in proportion to younger members. How is this to be reversed?It happened to the IWW. Until its 60s revival it was reduced to i think 80 paid up members, mostly old-timers( like the SLP) .  Somehow it managed to tap into that upsurge of revolutionary politics of the 60 and didn't need to change its name but it did adapt its structure to accommodate the rise in non-workers and those in other unions. I don't think we can afford to sit back and hope something similar helps us out with recruitment. We have to remember that the SPC went into extinction for a decade or two and had to be resurrected and some of our critics in Canadian labour history question that continuity although we ourselves would claim we are indeed part of the SPC tradition. The Australian and US parties adopted the World tag not by choice but because their old names had been stolen – The WORKERS Party of United StatesRemind me again of all the variants of our name that has been authorised for use in elections, ALB.If we are prepared to change our name on a ballot paper when it is appropriate and more apt, doesn't that also mean we can contemplate a party name change and party image change tat should go with it.I recall from my earlier membership in the 70s that we did debate the adoption of the WSP name but maybe that was just in Edinburgh branch.Rest assured that i stand by the caveat of my previous post…this issue cannot be imposed upon the party, certainly not by a simple majority decision. To be practable and with a positive prospect,  it  does require a overwhelming consensus since it means the participation and involvment of the party as a whole to shed its old skin and  (mixed metaphor, apologies) to metamorphise itself into something very different. I know there are snags…as i said somewhere –  we cannot even get all our members to migrate to this discussion list !But it should be an ongoing discussion and debate with steps that are able to be made once agreed, actually taken and not left to be wishful suggestions and then those steps built upon to venture further. An online video WSM conference of all companion parties and globally scattered individuals ( or perhaps an ADM equivalent)  should be organised as a priority (i am sure people like Janet and i with server problems can find a one-off solution through using internet cafe or whatnot, as well as others not normally connected to the web)A even more basic project would be the design and adoption of a common  WSM logo by all the companion parties to use on website banners, literature and letter heads as an actual symbol of our aspirations to be a world-wide organisation to create world socialism on a world scale. Baby steps to begin with…The great leaps and jumps should not be into the unknown but we should be building a path to the future of our parties. 

[SocialistPunk]

Alan makes a good argument for this change. The age we live in now demands that the WSM keep pace. The excuse that some members are not computer literate is a feeble one, considering as Alan points out education and a DIY ethic lies at the core of the principles of socialism. Though I am not in favour of the WSM being pared down to regional identities such as WSM (London) WSM (North East) etc.Alan and I know the history that the SPGB and SPC have and how important that is, but we are not advocating the two ditch such history. But is it not better to develop an international identity at some point? If an organisation continually uses history as an excuse, then it soon becomes tradition.  This strikes at the heart of a fault of the SPGB, an inability to respond quickly and decisively to changing social situations and developments.If history was so important, why did the members in the eighties and nineties want to downplay the GB element of the SPGB? Measure were put in place to protect the history of the party while trying to move the identity of the party in a direction more relevant to the times. The party adopting WSM (Britain) or whatever geographical location is necessary,can still be done while protecting the historical party origins as the SPGB. Just as dropping the GB could have been done decisively, decades ago.No doubt about it, it would require full and lengthy debate within the party. But I suspect the traditional mood of the party at present may mean the SPGB miss the boat yet again.

[SocialistPunk]

Alan, I posted my last post without seeing yours. Powerful stuff.I note with interest you mention the lack of party members joining this forum. Damn shame, that the flagship party site is ignored by most members in favour of party member only sites. I wonder why.Out of interest, can anyone tell me when the WSM label was first adopted and how it come about? 

[alanjjohnstone]

Quote:

Out of interest, can anyone tell me when the WSM label was first adopted and how it come about?

Good question. I don't know. Just what was the consultation and liason with the companion parties to set it up?I also often wondered about the phrase "free access socialism" when this phrase become party common usage. Also before i am corrected it was Workers Socialist Party of United States then World Socialist Party…saved a lot on changing abbreviateed reference 

[rodshaw]

If it came to a vote, I would be in favour of streamlining the names of the various parties, and of adopting a standard logo. I don't see how it could do any harm and it might do some good. Certainly, I prefer to tell people I'm in the World Socialist Movement (or Party) rather than in the SPGB. I always feel I have to qualify the party's name by immediately disowning the nationalistic-sounding GB bit. Especially with all the 'Great British' this-and-that we get shoved at us these days.However, maybe a better policy would be for us to push the recently re-vamped WSM umbrella website as the flagship, and put more content on there. Maybe, for example, the general bit of this discussion forum should be on there rather than here.Also, I would like to know, maybe from Alan or SocialistPunk, if there is any evidence that use of 'Great Britain' in the party name is actually holding the movement back. Are you being told this? Is it putting people off joining? If we could quantify this, it might help decide how much effort was worth putting into the debate.

[ALB]

Here's what happened the last time this went to a Party Poll:

Quote:

JAN-FEB 1986: Are you in favour of changing the name of the Party to World Socialist Party (Britain)? Lost 72-229.

Later that same year Conference carried the following resolution:

Quote:

This Conference resolves that the propaganda of the Socialist Party should refer as often as appropriate to our membership of 'The World Socialist Movement'.

This seems to me a sensible compromise. It's why, for instance, 'Companion Party of the World Socialist Movement' is on the masthead of the Socialist Standard. Just a pity 2008 Conference voted to go backwards and insert "of Great Britain" into it. Here's what it used to look like till them: But I think we'd have to bonkers to completely abandon our long-standing full name. Even though this would not be a break with our past it would be perceived of as such. 

[SocialistPunk]

rodshaw wrote:

If it came to a vote, I would be in favour of streamlining the names of the various parties, and of adopting a standard logo. I don't see how it could do any harm and it might do some good. Certainly, I prefer to tell people I'm in the World Socialist Movement (or Party) rather than in the SPGB. I always feel I have to qualify the party's name by immediately disowning the nationalistic-sounding GB bit. Especially with all the 'Great British' this-and-that we get shoved at us these days.However, maybe a better policy would be for us to push the recently re-vamped WSM umbrella website as the flagship, and put more content on there. Maybe, for example, the general bit of this discussion forum should be on there rather than here.Also, I would like to know, maybe from Alan or SocialistPunk, if there is any evidence that use of 'Great Britain' in the party name is actually holding the movement back. Are you being told this? Is it putting people off joining? If we could quantify this, it might help decide how much effort was worth putting into the debate.

Hi rodshawI don't have any evidence either way that the GB bit of the party name is affecting progress, but by your own admission you prefer to use the WSM identity. As you say it mingles with the pomp of nationalism. So it affects the way you promote socialism, because you wish to present socialism as international not national.World Socialist Movement, encompasses a socialist world view. It does what it says on the tin. Does The Socialist Party of Great Britain and The Socialist Party of Canada conjure up an image of international socialism? The honest answer is, no. In a growing international socialist movement the SPGB and SPC with its historical pedigree, could end up looking like a vanguard element, leading the rest of the WSM. Imagine trying to explain to people who may be interested in a world socialist view that the SPGB is part of a growing WSM, but insists on retaining its historical title. What reason could be given that did not paint a picture of historical elitism?"Well the SPGB is the oldest socialist party in Britain and the second oldest in the world, so we think it historicaly important to hold onto that identity, but we're not elitist about it." 

[LBird]

1904 SPGB1905 Einstein’s Special Relativity1907 Picasso’s Les Demoiselles d'Avignon1914 World War One1915 Einstein’s General Relativity1917 Duchamp’s FountainetcYou’re still living on the wrong side of ‘history’, comrades.My advice? Ditch the 'GB'.

[Anonymous]

To the best of my knowledge the SPGB has never taken advice from non-members and hopefully never will.

ALB wrote:

But I think we'd have to bonkers to completely abandon our long-standing full name. Even though this would not be a break with our past it would be perceived of as such.

Absolutely right and for what good reason?  In a desperate attempt to appeal to more workers who otherwise don't understand or want socialism?  It didn't work back in 1988 and it's not going to work now.Apart from the full name the party has, over its history, used the shortened name form and will continue to do so, and, of course, the acronym, by which we are probably better known, especially by workers who know anything at all about politics.This is the party's new fascia sign.  Get used to it.   

[LBird]

gnome wrote:

To the best of my knowledge the SPGB has never taken advice from non-members and hopefully never will.

oooo! Never taken advice from the class, eh?The more I dig, on all threads, the more I find Leninist-like certainty!God forbid the 'Party' would have the attitude that it can learn from the class, eh?Nah, as usual, it's a one-way transmission belt…

[Anonymous]

LBird wrote:

gnome wrote:

To the best of my knowledge the SPGB has never taken advice from non-members and hopefully never will.

oooo! Never taken advice from the class, eh?The more I dig, on all threads, the more I find Leninist-like certainty!God forbid the 'Party' would have the attitude that it can learn from the class, eh?Nah, as usual, it's a one-way transmission belt…

 It is quite possible that the majority on this forum are not members of the WSM.As has been pointed out  before,  this forum consists of members and non members of the  WSM. You cannot take what is said on this forum  as the WSM's stated position. If you would like the WSM 's position on any subject you will need to ask the Party; not individuals on this forum. 

[Anonymous]

SP, I have a great deal of sympathy with what you say. As a member of NERB you could have a direct influence on the future direction of the WSM  

[Author]

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