The Religion word
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northern light wrote:Do I believe the creation of the Universe is a scientific question ? You bet your bottom dollar I do, 100%
Whoopie we got there. I was starting to feel like Paxman interviewing Michael Howard.
northern light wrote:The whole point of "The Religion Word" was to bring to the attention of the party, that there are people out there, potential party members, who have a belief which should not bar them from membership.Do I believe the creation of the Universe is a scientific question ? You bet your bottom dollar I do, 100%But do you finally accept that knowledge, however you wish to define that term, is more important than belief?
Ed wrote:Whoopie we got there. I was starting to feel like Paxman interviewing Michael Howard.Oh Ed, that was below the belt.
gnome wrote:But do you finally accept that knowledge, however you wish to define that term, is more important than belief?Hi Gnome, what I say, is that belief comes from knowledge.
northern light wrote:gnome wrote:But do you finally accept that knowledge, however you wish to define that term, is more important than belief?Hi Gnome, what I say, is that belief comes from knowledge.
If it "comes from knowledge" then it's no longer belief, is it?My definition of belief is something which can be described as a psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true without the necessity of providing any supporting evidence.Knowledge, on the other hand, relies on the application of the scientific method which is based upon gathering observable and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning and experimentation.
Hi Gnome, probably a bit of misunderstanding on my behalf, here. I assumed "belief" to be acceptance of a statement, or fact, I looked up "belief" in my dictionary, after your reply, and the description was anything but meaningful. Must buy a new one. I bow to your superior knowledge.
I too remember the old Seaham branch. About 25 to 30 members. I remember printing our own leaflets, in point of fact, I've still got copies of some of them. They were printed on a RONEO copier. If memory serves me right, there was a young fellow called, what was his name! mmm oh yes, Vin Maratty, a real fire brand he was, turned the handle, turn after turn, for bloody ages.I remember, in the early 80's that members of the branch had 6, yes 6 letters printed in the Sunderland Echo letters page on the same day. Bobby Gleg, Vin, Pat and Linda Maratty, Kevin Lennon and another I can't recall at the mo. Letters published every few days in this paper. Hundreds a year.We had debates upstairs in the Carlton Arms. As OGW said, with Tories, (a fool in a boiler suit) think his name was Mitchel. Debated with the Rev Stephenson, bit misguided but a decent bloke. Steve Coleman, no, not Colborn, debated with him. Remember Steve asked us if we wanted him to give him a good going over, or should he try a, lets say, a more easier approach! lol, good old Steve. Also with Liberals and others. 70 or eighty people at some meetings.Had loads of free ads in the S. Echo. Over the years we had hundreds upon hundreds of letters published. In one year, another young firebrand socialist, Steve Colborn, had 360+ letters published in various papers in the N.East. We had the papers full and I do mean full, of Socialist propoganda.This was REAL Socialist propagandising. We never let up.I've still got the vast majority of these letters in letters books at home. I should really get them copied onto disc.The history of Socialist activity in the N.East, is truly astounding and meritorious.Wish the same guys were doing the propagandising today.Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention the hours upon hours of radio phone in talk we had. Led, much more than ably by young Pat the rat Maratty. What a bloody good Socialist he was.I think of all my old N.East comrades, living and dead. Perhaps the modern bunch could take a leaf out of your book!All the fault of that guy, called Bobby Gleg. You left your mark on all Socialists in the N.East.
steve colborn wrote:The history of Socialist activity in the N.East, is truly astounding and meritorious.Wish the same guys were doing the propogandising today.Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention the hours upon hours of radio phone in talk we had. Led, much more than ably by young Pat the rat Maratty. What a bloody good Socialist he was.I think of all my old N.East comrades, living and dead. Perhaps the modern bunch could take a leaf out of your book!All the fault of that guy, called Bobby Gleg. You left your mark on all Socialists in the N.East.See my post, on the thread about the Party, about trying to get things going again in the North East. What do the four of you up there think?
northern light wrote:ALB wrote:This is all part of the Great Misunderstanding on this thread of which you've been a victim like the rest of us. I had assumed northern light to have said that he held the same views on religion as Einstein and, as to me at least, Einstein's views (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein) on this seemed to be acceptable, invited northern light to apply. It now seems that he doesn't hold the same views as Einstein as, unlike Einstein, he believes in a personal "Creator".Hi ALB, Yes you have invited me to apply to join the party, and at one stage, I was on the verge, till I read what you said in thread 137. It quite knocked my end in. I am not used to this play on words
Oh dear, another Misunderstanding. But you seem to have got the sequence of events the wrong way round. My message 137 of 16 September was my interpretation of your message 87 of 14 September in which you wrote:
northern light wrote:From my perspective, nothing has changed. I can not, will not apply to join the SPGB., even though our goals and aspirations are the same.I still don't know whether or not your views on religion and "God" are the same as Einstein's.Over to you, Ed Paxman.
Hi Steve Colbornnice little history of Seaham Branch and you are right Bob was the first socialist in the area. I remember the first time I met him he said ' so you are a socialist?' and as the word 'yes' came out of my mouth I some how knew I was in for bit of a hiding – because he rolled up his shirt sleeves!
ALB wrote:steve colborn wrote:The history of Socialist activity in the N.East, is truly astounding and meritorious.Wish the same guys were doing the propogandising today.Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention the hours upon hours of radio phone in talk we had. Led, much more than ably by young Pat the rat Maratty. What a bloody good Socialist he was.I think of all my old N.East comrades, living and dead. Perhaps the modern bunch could take a leaf out of your book!All the fault of that guy, called Bobby Gleg. You left your mark on all Socialists in the N.East.See my post, on the thread about the Party, about trying to get things going again in the North East. What do the four of you up there think?
Have to think about that. As I have said in another thread, i am not sure the old methods work. In fact they could adversly affect the image of the party. I would like to see how that debate pans out. Tho' I cant see anything wrong in socialists meeting up
steve colborn wrote:Debated with the Rev Stephenson, bit misguided but a decent bloke.On topic! This was a good bloke and seemed to agree with our case – not just because he was standing opposite Steve Coleman either.
northern light wrote:Hi Gnome, probably a bit of misunderstanding on my behalf, here. I assumed "belief" to be acceptance of a statement, or fact, I looked up "belief" in my dictionary, after your reply, and the description was anything but meaningful. Must buy a new one.The problem with using the word "belief" in that sense is that it leads to a misunderstanding and becomes confused with what religious people mean by it. Probably better to say that one either knows or doesn't know.
Quote:I bow to your superior knowledge.Socialists never bow – to anyone
And for all those like northern light on this forum………….http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/membership-applicationThose who have previously been members and now wish to rejoin need not complete a fresh questionnaire. All applications to be made online, to the nearest branch or to Head Office, 52 Clapham High Street, London SW4 7UNPhone: 0207 622 3811 Email: <spgb@worldsocialism.org>
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