The Need for “Intellectuals” in Politics
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Matt wrote:… it is getting dafter each post. You appear to regard scientists as an elite when they are actually proles. There won't be any elites, scientists, miners, engineers, electricians, dieticians. But we will surely give some weight to their specialisms.
This sort of conversation always appears 'daft' to those who know nothing about power, politics, philosophy and science.I've tried to explain why it's a vital subject, the control of the power of 'specialisms' (to use your term), but you seem happy with the current social arrangements.Some, like me, aren't.
gnome wrote:I suspect the latter but on the other hand JDW does also appear to have a bit of a fixation with you. Seems you've impressed someone…Perhaps it's just that jdw has got a more open mind?And has some awareness of the issues of 'power'. I have to say, though, that this political awareness is in strangely short supply amongst the membership, from what I read here.The SPGB seems to have had more of this consciousness in 1906, from jdw's post from the SS. Which is where we came in…
One of the most important original pamphlets the party ever produced was 'Socialism' and one of the editions (possibly from 1925) included an illustrated cover picturing a lady wearing a sash that read 'science'. A picture has just been published online herehttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/S-P-G-B-Socialism-Pamphlet-Socialist-Party-of-Great-Britain-c-1925-Socialist-/142184957266?hash=item211ae24552:g:ATAAAOSwHMJYMXQRhttp://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ATAAAOSwHMJYMXQR/s-l1600.jpg
jondwhite wrote:One of the most important original pamphlets the party ever produced was 'Socialism' and one of the editions (possibly from 1925) included an illustrated cover picturing a lady wearing a sash that read 'science'. A picture has just been published online herehttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/S-P-G-B-Socialism-Pamphlet-Socialist-Party-of-Great-Britain-c-1925-Socialist-/142184957266?hash=item211ae24552:g:ATAAAOSwHMJYMXQRhttp://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ATAAAOSwHMJYMXQR/s-l1600.jpgoh crap, don't mention science, you'll wake the L Bird up!!!(for those of you who don't know the L Bird is a semi mythical creature who lives in a strange land called Votopia.The L Bird is a very sensitive soul who has a unique reaction to the word science. When he hears that word he rises from his nest of half digested copies of the Works of Frederick Engels and gets himself into a right old lather, flapping his crusty old wings about, calling for votes on the existence of custard, saying that he and only he could decide what the future is going to look like and usually ending it all by everyone a Leninists and generally being a complete pain in the hoop.Thankfully the L Bird has been quietly brooding in his nest for a little while, he usually sits there dormant for a short period of time after all of the questions he refuses to answer have mounted up to the point where he feels a complete tool. But be careful, it doesn't take much for the L Bird to be wakened from his slumbers, take his beak out of his arse and start the whole process off again.strangely the L Bird seems to have some kind of magic amulet that protects him from the attentions of the legendary all powerful wizards called "The Mods"Round our way parents used to chide their children by telling them that if they didn't settle offf to sleep they'd summon up the L Bird who would send the off to the land of nod with one majestic sweep of his ludicrous ideas.)
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somehow I thought under communism or socialism that experts or scientist were just servants chosen by the masses based on their past history of producing valuable results. What makes a scientist different from a brick layer? I didn't think there was much difference at all. Both have specialized skills and knowledge. on further thought, there is a supposed difference. the theoretical difference is that a scientist has more latitude and freedom of decision making and the scientist has more effect in determining the value of her work. but on closer inspection, I don't think that theoretical difference is true at all becuase it suggest property. "her work" is not her work it's everyones work. all property is communal in socialism, so she doesn't own the product of her work as a form of property. Just like with the brick layer who doesn't own the building or wall built with the bricks. But still there's a sort of difference between someone who works with something like a nuclear power plant vs cutting carrots. Someone working with a nuclear plant can do a lot of damage compared to someone cutting carrots. Probably what you want to do is describe work using a protocol that indicates the amount of freedom in the work, the amount of community value to undertake the work and the positive or negative value that is produced by the work. All these value estimates should maybe be stated in terms of hours or some other non-property based metric. seems to me like maybe the numbers can be used sensibly to better determine oversight and freedom and indepenence when working for the common good. Someone working on a nuclear power plant for example might be working with 100,000 hours as a result of a skrew up that takes 5 minutes of inattention. So the solution, I think is that if somoenes working on somethign that important, they should have 100,000 hours of second guessing or oversight and training and information combined? That's probably not right exactly, but it seems like the right idea to me.There does seem to be a need for specialized knowledge right? Maybe not. in movies an expert can talk the hero through disarming a bomb. So bomb defusing is specialized knowledge, but the labor of difusing a bomb need not be specialized. That some poeple have greater capacities or ability than others at certain types of production seems to be true. And some poeple like certain types of production more than others. I guess socialist use surveys and questionares, and records of past work and evaluations of past work to decide who gets to do what? I can try to solve the problem my universal values exchange system protocols. that's easy. it would be a postacard that said. .
Quote:."Hi my name is jane, and I like working on nuclear reactors and I'm good at it. Check my exchange history for 5 star ratings on all my past work with nuclear reactors (provide link to google doc endorsed and verified by the universal comunims of san francisco). Notice that there are no negative comments or reports of my being innatentive with nuclear material. you can see from my exchange record that I have a large number of safety credits and responsibilty coin awards. in fact my lifetime cumulative safety and responsibilty coin awards will more than cover any mistakes I might make in an hour, so even if I mess up, you can deduct the coin from my past earnings. I've sent out my job application too people who with high safety coin and high reliability coin ballances so they can pay me for my work with safety coin and reliability coin. the job pays me regular hour coins for every hour coin, but also it pays me 50 safety hour coins for every hour I work with no safety mistakes. you can watch me work if you're a high paying exchange partner with and can pay the national security interest coin and top secret sensitive information coin per hour. If you agree that you want me to work with the nuclear reactor in your city, then write back on the survey card 'I want jane to work on the nuclear reactor and it's worth ___ fill this in with whatever you're willing to pay me'. Also, I supporters can earn returns on my time worked without failures, so pick me and make a profit.p.s. thanks for filling out my survey. if I get the job then the exchange will go through and you'll be invested in my work using the currency you donated. If I don't get the job, then you can still claim the 10 minutes reading reasoning and writing time it took you to read this and complete your survey, regardless of how you answered the survey. As per the software rules, all the surveys are 100 percent public, so you can see the results of this and past surveys about me.hmm. not sure if that works. I don't think it's proper protocol format for an exchange. to be a proper exchange using the universal values exchange system protocols, it needs to include a list or definition of who the offer is made to like you have to gets power from the reactor could be the in the exclusions section for the offer. so the offer isn't valid for people outside the power grid or outside the danger zone of the reactor. Also it would need to more explicitely and at the top indicated what a person gets in return for their contribution and usually specefy the amount of the contribution. this exchange agreement so far does not meet the requirement for a valid exchange in universal values system exchange protocols. I'ts more a plain word brainstorming exchange agreement. I guess it needs more work. I'll think on it. I would ask if anyone wants to contribute to writing a socialist approved work agreement with me by editing and improving this and offer to compensate the time up to 10 minutes for anyone who re-writes my entry to make it better. (limited to first 5 revisions). Also the re-write I like best will get 1 hour of my time after i have 5 entries to choose from.
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