The ISO

[alanjjohnstone]

One of those infuriatingly frustrating articles that you wish you could corner the author and fill his face with facts because of his throwaway..and i mean that literally…remarks. 

But nevertheless a good read for those of us with a passing interest in the rise and fall of the Leftist parties over the years. 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/14/inside-the-international-socialist-organization/

And yes, perhaps there is a lesson in what he says for us too but we were already early starters on visual cliches when Lancaster branch questioned the association and addiction to the colour red (and we seldom presented the fist in our graphics) We already dropped various terms such as "dictatorship of the proletariat" …and even "proletariat" itself…maybe "comrade" will be next to disappear from our language.

i never ever liked the IWW's "fellow worker". "Brothers and sisters" always made me cringe when the SSP and Sheridan always began speeches with it, plus it  forgets our cousins and uncles and aunts and nephews and nieces and dads and mums. Should i end this post  "fraternally" ?

[Ed]

Colours have very specific meanings, I'm not sure I'd call them cliched. Red obviously represents the blood of the workers and was universally adopted after the paris commune. Black represents anti-nations, my anarchist buddys tell me it too came from the paris commune. Green the obvious choice for the eco warriors. Yellow is used by libertarians, I guess because it's a bit like gold? The colour of money. It's difficult to even come up with a mix of colours which isn't already associated with something a rainbow for the LGBT, red black and green for pan african nationalism. The list is probably endless, but those are the ones that spring to mind. My point is that whether it's a good thing or a bad thing it's something that everyone does. Using a colour other than red (or red & black) runs the risk of being mistaken for something entirely different.On names the 1st international used citizen, which I guess would make some of you shudder. Did the term have a comeback in the 70's? What with Citizen Smith and all. Comrade is ok. But it's almost a little militaristic seeing as they're the other group outside commies who use it. Brothers and Sisters comes of a little religous. Fellow worker I agree with you is a little weird, it doesn't roll off the tongue, does it. I've no good ideas for an alternative, perhaps we should invent a new word?

[alanjjohnstone]

Colour-coded politics has been around for a while. In Thailand the two rival elites fighting out as red-shirts and yellow-shirts. The Orange Ukraine revolution…(i see that one going down well in parts of Northern Ireland and Scotland but not in others.) However your examples are, of course, a bit Euro-centric…Green is the colour if Islamists, as is black, i believe, so it will always be a question of location to what colour socialists should choose.Why should our symbols be restricted to certain patterns? If anarcho-syndicalists/anarcho-communists can go for the diagonals, can we not go for the red polka-dots? Dotty socialists…where have i heard that said before…hmmm….Your droog*Alan* Nah , that doesn't sit well either and its also Russian…Never liked citizen due to the Scarlet Pimpernel and the Americanism , senior citizen, they never call kids junior citizens …just junior……kameraden …too militaristic…compadre…thats a bit softer sounding…

[ALB]

Actually, "Comrades and fellow workers" used to be the standard way that Party speakers opened their indoor talks (or lectures as they were in those days). "Fellow Workers" was how you opened an outdoor meeting. It was also how our election manifestos began. When in the 1950s some outdoor speakers began addressing outdoor audiences as "Men and Women" a big theoretical controversy broke out …

[Anonymous]

Comrades,friends and fellow workers is a spot on address as it allows us to immediately and inclusively, address the question of class. It was what I grew up with at outdoor meetings in Glasgow. We always used fellowworkers,brother ,sister at union,branch,section, or mass factory union meetings.This was  something I always felt comfortable with,better than 'colleagues' ,as did the members. It allowed for effective discourse and even diffused hostility, when replying to a worker who had accused the shop committee of all sorts of chicanery, to be addressed calmly as sister/brother, in replies.I guess Sherriden latched on to this ,but is no excuse for us jettisoning it,any more tha surrendering socialism to him.

[jondwhite]

And presumably that addressing crowds as "men and women" wasn't controversial because it was considered too cisnormative. Ah well, maybe one day this will be the party objection.I read the ISO article and wondered if I should ask if Lars Lih is bringing down Leninism.p24 the monument states of the socialist standard "its name was chosen by the EC from a list of suggestions which included The Red Flag, Socialism, The Socialist Republic and the Socialist News". Its all very simple to see things in black and white as some branches may do, but red is a good shorthand symbol for socialism and a recognition that our history predates the founding of the party. The red flag was also used when two red flags flown by marchers during the Merthyr riots of 1831 in South Wales were soaked in calf's blood.On the other hand, Comrade, sounds naff in my opinion. Fellow worker is okay but I read a critique from the archives suggesting the party speaks in the capacity of socialists not as fellow workers. I think this might have been in forum journal.

[Ed]

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Colour-coded politics has been around for a while. In Thailand the two rival elites fighting out as red-shirts and yellow-shirts. The Orange Ukraine revolution…(i see that one going down well in parts of Northern Ireland and Scotland but not in others.)

Exactly and this really only enforces my point that it's something people do; Assign specific colours to  certain movements. And to use a different colour can lead to confusion.

alanjjohnstone wrote:

However your examples are, of course, a bit Euro-centric…Green is the colour if Islamists, as is black, i believe, so it will always be a question of location to what colour socialists should choose.

Yep true some do cross over, I suppose culture does play a big part in it. Culture is also difficult to manufacture. Switching colours to one that you wouldn't associate with something takes time better to keep it simple and stick with red.

alanjjohnstone wrote:

Why should our symbols be restricted to certain patterns? If anarcho-syndicalists/anarcho-communists can go for the diagonals, can we not go for the red polka-dots? Dotty socialists…where have i heard that said before…hmmm….

I like it! Polka Dots…..although the 50's retro thing did sort of go out of fashion about 10 years ago.I think in the end though, we must remember that it's the parties case which will win over workers not the colours we choose.Your TovarischEd

[Anonymous]

Ed wrote:

Yep true some do cross over, I suppose culture does play a big part in it. Culture is also difficult to manufacture. Switching colours to one that you wouldn't associate with something takes time better to keep it simple and stick with red.

Indeed and I have no objection whatever to a little black thrown in for good measure to highlight our opposition to the state and leadership.  Our Wikipedia page declares that the Party's unofficial colours are red and yellow – not sure where that notion came from.  The yellow should definitely be given the bum's rush and neither should we countenance the remotest scintilla of blue or grey in the new Head Office fascia sign when it finally sees the light of day.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_colour

[ALB]

jondwhite wrote:

And presumably that addressing crowds as "men and women" wasn't controversial because it was considered too cisnormative. Ah well, maybe one day this will be the party objection.

Cisnormative? Never heard of it till now. What is it?  What do you have to do to be one? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Or should it be spelt "sisnormative"?

[alanjjohnstone]

"neither should we countenance the remotest scintilla of blue or grey in the new Head Office fascia sign when it finally sees the light of day."Is there any plans to include a hanging sign from the existing bracket for higher visability to pedestrians Or afix a flag pole for raising the red flag? After all we do call upon workers to muster under our banner in our Declaration of Principles …we really should have one for them to muster under!! 

[HollyHead]

gnome wrote:

  Our Wikipedia page declares that the Party's unofficial colours are red and yellow – not sure where that notion came from. 

 From the colour scheme used in the current plastic facia to No. 52 possibly?I seem to recall that the same colours were at one time used on the party platform at Hyde Park.

[Anonymous]

HollyHead wrote:

I seem to recall that the same colours were at one time used on the party platform at Hyde Park.

Yes, still are.  Probably the source of the Wikipedia information.

[Author]

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