The burden of taxation

[Anonymous]

Our analysis is based upon class and not from any particular individual or sectional standpoint.  Whreeas it is true that some taxes are 'paid' by the working class, the burden of taxation ultimately rests on the capitalists and has to be paid out of the profit accruing to them in the form of rent, interest and profit, the basis of which is the unpaid labour of the working class, including that of retired workers who depend on deferred wages, otherwise known as pensions.But it 's not just our analysis – it's one shared by, among others, Marx and David Ricardo.

Marx in Collected Works, Vol 6 wrote:

If all taxes which bear on the working class were abolished root and branch, the necessary consequence would be the reduction of wages by the whole amount of taxes which goes into them. Either the employers' profit would rise as a direct consequence by the same quantity, or else no more than an alteration in the form of tax-collecting would have Our argument is that although some taxes are paid by the working class, the burden of taxation rests on the capitalists and has to be paid out of the profit accruing to them in the form of rent, interest and profit, the basis of which is the unpaid labour.

Ricardo in The Principles of Political Economy and Taxation wrote:

Taxes on wages will raise wages, and therefore will diminish the rate of the profits of stock… a tax on wages is wholly a tax on profits; a tax on necessaries is partly a tax on profits and partly a tax on rich consumers. The ultimate effects which will result from such taxes, then, are precisely the same as those which result from a direct tax on profits.

[Young Master Smeet]

jondwhite wrote:

Is the burden of taxation why employers are so keen on salary sacrifice schemes?

It reduces gross salary, and thus also employers NI stamp.https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/about-pensions/saving-into-a-pension/salary-sacrifice

[alanjjohnstone]

So is this proposed increase in tax a deferred wages pay-cut for pensioners?Without industrial muscle, what recommendation can we offer fellow-workers to oppose and defend their standard of living on a pension. For those in work, we suggest trade union action as a counter-weight to combatting tax increases, and it is this class struggle to determine the value of wages that ultimately places the burden of taxation upon the capitalist class. There is no automaticity in the division of spoils of surplus value.What should a member of the Party advise an OAP facing reduced income because of this tax rise? (Apart from the obvious, that is.)Should we openly endorse his or her anti-austerity campaign to protect the level of income by fighting any extra taxes on pensions?

[Young Master Smeet]

1: Some of the tax would be to take NI contributions from working pensioners.2: Those of us in work, and calculating our retirement costs would start to cost in the retirement taxation costs.3: Pensioners would protest en-masse, lobby government and vote to porotect their own current interests.4: at the worst, costs of up-keep for pensioners would creep into current wages as working age off-spring begin to support their parents.

[alanjjohnstone]

2: Those of us in work, and calculating our retirement costs would start to cost in the retirement taxation costs.4: at the worst, costs of up-keep for pensioners would creep into current wages as working age off-spring begin to support their parents.Both suggest a drop in real wages ie disposable income.Does it imply a fight for higher wages to compensate for superannuation and higher family costs etc increases.I'm pessimistic in believing fellow-workers can achieve this expected militancy. 1: Some of the tax would be to take NI contributions from working pensioners.Isn't the rise in state pension retirement ages partly encompassing this, anyway?3: Pensioners would protest en-masse, lobby government and vote to porotect their own current interests.And as i asked in my post, can we fully endorse and support this defence? I personally think we can express our sympathy, just as we do for those resisting austerity attacks on their benefits.But can we go even further by urging on any self-defence, perhaps offering logistic help…a meeting room, use of photocopiers perhaps space in the Standard. Or should we remain passive supporters?

[Young Master Smeet]

It's not so much actual changes, but pressures and balances of forces.  Another option is for the capitalist class collectively to cut the social wage through deteriorating services.  the class struggle to live on under capitalism deserves our support. the recent lecturers USS strike – one of the biggest strikes of our lifetimes – wasn't about an immediate loss of pensions, but future losses and about the compact over deferred wages.  Resistence can be mobilised, and should be.  The shift in the burden of taxes isn't automatic, but knowledge is power in this case, the clearer we are about what is going on, the easier for workers to remedy the situation.

[ALB]

Here is somebody who was both a socialist and a pensioner activist:https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/14/helen-grew-obituary

[alanjjohnstone]

1: Some of the tax would be to take NI contributions from working pensioners. For December 2017 to February 2018, just under 1.2 million people over the age of 65 were in work – or 10.2% of the entire age group. That's out of a total UK workforce of 32.3 million.When the figures for over-65s were first collected, in spring 1992, there were just 478,000 in work – or 5.5% of the age group. So, the proportion in employment has almost doubled since then. There has been a steady increase over the years, rather than any spike occurring after 2011, when the default retirement age – which allowed employers to impose compulsory retirement – ended.742,000 are men – that's 13.7% of the age group. The percentage has risen from 8.5% in 1992. Some 454,000 women over the age of 65 also continue to work – or 7.2%. That rate has more than doubled since 1992, when it was 3.5%. Overall, 57.3% were employed part-time, and 42.7% full-time. And 34.2% of all older workers were self-employed.According to the 2011 Census, 16.7% of the over-65 workforce in England and Wales were employed either in the wholesale or retail trade. This was the largest category. Meanwhile, 11.8% worked in health or social work, 9.7% in manufacturing, 9.4% in education and 7.8% professional, scientific and technical jobs. Construction, with its physical demands, might not seem a likely fit for many over-65s, but it employed 7.7% of those still work at that age.Quite a revenue if NI was instatedhttp://www.bbc.com/news/business-44042133

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