Syriza
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They are Marxists when they are using the pen, or the keyboard, but in practice, they are Keynesian, and at the end they become worst or equal to the capitalist class.Left wingers have not learned anything from the past history of their own leaders, and the so called socialist government, they are always repeating the same mistakes all over againJust look at the case of Venezuela, they thought that they were holding the devil by the tail, and now due to an enormous political and economical crisis they are reaching our for the capitalists of Europe and the US.The Cuban government has dumped in the trash the Venezuelan leaders in order to make alliance with the American capitalist class, and despite all these maneuvers they continue talking about socialism. At the present time anybody can call himself or herself a Marxists or a socialist, including the Puerto Rican Macheteros which are just a group of banks robbers
Signs of the "co-operation" that is to come.
Quote:the new prime minister arrived at his official residence on Monday night to discover that computers, paperwork and even the toiletries had been removed by the outgoing administration.Shortly after he was sworn in, Syriza leader Alexis Tsipras found himself inside the Maximos Mansion without some basic necessities. “They took everything,” he said. “I was looking for an hour to find soap.”Traditionally, a defeated Greek prime minister will wait until their successor has been anointed to wish them well. But Antonis Samaras was in such a rush to go that he even failed to leave the Wi-Fi password.“We sit in the dark. We have no internet, no email, no way to communicate with each other,” one staffer told Germany’s Der Spiegel.It took until Tuesday evening for Tsipras to get his hands on the official prime ministerial Twitter account.Headline in today's Times: "Greece sends in Marxist to haggle with eurozone". Later on the article says more accurately:
Quote:Mr Varoufakis, described as a Keynesian with a touch of MarxActually, that's a good description of many academics and leftists who call themselves Marxists. They are really leftwing Keynesians.
Leftwing "Quantativeasingist" surely Adam. Tories would never admit to a bit of Keynesianist reflation but a bit of QE? well you get the point. Quantativeasing always struck me as a good name for a porno move? Porno isn't anywhere near as obscene as Capitalism though!
A very interesting discussion and fascinating links, thanks all. I'm surprised that a more positive point hasn't been made wrung out of the affair (unless I missed it). Syriza, within barely a few years, went from being a tiny group of Marxist misfits to winning power, using entirely democratic means. No one thought this at all likely, including (probably) everyone on this forum, the mainstream press and the well-funded and informed think tanks they rely on, and no doubt Syriza themselves. But they did it.It seems they won support partly by promising to do something about the horrific situation in Greece, partly through solidarity work with those suffering. Obviously this isn't the same as trying to win support for a longer term change without prospect of near-term success ("Socialism"). But still, it does in some ways at least back up the SPGB's case, and will no doubt continue to back it up as it fails to live up to the high (reformist) expectations of the people who voted for it. That it will achieve *nothing* to alleviate the suffering of the Greek people ("reformism doesn't work"), however, is almost certain to be proved entirely wrong. If "history" won't convince you of the folly of this argument, perhaps contemporary affairs will.All the bestStuart
Stuart, we've never said capitalism cannot be reformed, but that any reforms achieved:1) have to be compatible with the ongoing accumulation of capital;2) can be reversed easilly;3) do not necessarilly lead to socialism nor socialist consciousness;and that we think directly campaigning for socialism will be more effective, even as a short run measure.Syriza have managed to appear 'out of nowhere', largely through being a broad coalition. Given the horror of what has happened to Greece, I hope they at least manage to alleviate some of the suffering, but it's clear where the real power lies, and we would be remiss not to point it out.Indeed, as we see here, Syriza are aware that it will need to spread its reformution:http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23878
i agree the rapid growth of Syriza and of Podemos in Spain is an interesting phenomena , i think from the very start of the thread this has been acknowledged by us all.Why such a rise is an even more interesting question? With conditions very similar in Ireland, why have they remained rather impassive (albeit the water tax campaign is a potential catalyst for action).Die Linke seem to be following in the footsteps of the German Greens, accommodating themselves with the establishment. Certainly here in the UK there are no comparable growth on the Left but on the contrary, a rise on the Right with UKIP and perhaps in Scotland a nationalism which seems to be sustaining itself, despite the No vote in the referendum. Again we have a caveat on the improved position of the Greens but as been pointed out on their thread, their policies are unravelling under mounting scrutiny.I would be interest in knowing how we can take advantage of the belief (and it is a mistaken one unless all of Marxist economics is to be rejected) that government policies can rescue the workers from the effects of a global recession and maybe we can be referred to examples of sucessful counter-policies to austerity…Perhaps Venezuela and "oil socialism"?…. but where are the Greek oil wells? (and the fall in oil prices are now making reforms in Venezuel precarious)Default on the debt…can Greece do an Argentina?…more importantly, can its workers do an Argentina?I suppose we could use history more… Stratchey/Maxton ILP policies on one hand and Mosley's New Economics on the other that were proclaimed as the way forward for that Great Recession..Maybe those with a little bit more knowledge can give us some insights of the French Popular Front of the 30s, i confess not knowing much about it, a failing of my school history class, i'm afraid….I can only agree with Stuart…very interesting times…and many more ahead…But does it mean some dramatic epiphany for the working class…i doubt it…as been said, personally and without too much certainty, i'm pessimistic and foresee a back-lash when promises …or more accurately – expectations – are not met..but i speculate and untiL we actually see events unrolling, at this point, we can only make educated guesses…and Stuart, you are right….our overall judgement is one of scepticism…it is not cynicism, though, but well justified doubts…But i'm glad some have unwavering optimism…
stuartw2112 wrote:That it will achieve *nothing* to alleviate the suffering of the Greek people ("reformism doesn't work"), however, is almost certain to be proved entirely wrong. If "history" won't convince you of the folly of this argument, perhaps contemporary affairs will.Actually our position is a bit more nuanced than'nothing'. This is what we said on our blog item 'The return of leftwing reformism' about it:
Quote:The Syriza government might, by taking some of the measures outlined above by Milios, be able to mitigate a little the ‘humanitarian disaster’ in Greece where there’s been a massive increase in destitution leading to, among other things, an increase in mental ill-health, suicides and the infant mortality rate. But it won’t be able to boost the accumulation of capital.So, yes, the new Syriza governnment maybe able to reorganise austerity a bit to ease the fate of the hardest hit a little, but it won't be able to spent its way out of the crisis. We'll see who contemporary affairs makes a fool of
Just to add, I suspect Syriza will end up behaving much like our sotto voce Labour government did with its Keynsianism on the quiet. Also, the French Parti Socialist has already come to power on an anti-Austerity ticket and floundered.
Adam's certainly right about one thing: being a Marxist means contemporary affairs need never make a fool of you. A little dialectic will always get you out of trouble.
I hope it's obvious that was a joke (considering myself a Marxist of sorts). Anyway, only dropped by to see what you were saying about Syriza, and I leave suitably impressed (with caveats).Toodle pip
http://zedbooks.co.uk/paperback/europe-after-the-minotaurZed books are giving away a Varoufakis ebook. Miht be of interest.
Syriza is now the darling of the Left, but also Evo Morales of Bolivia has a soft spot in the hearts of many on the Left. This is perhaps the most critical article i have read of him on the "liberal-progressive" American based websites.http://truth-out.org/news/item/28778-can-bolivia-shatter-the-vise-of-capitalismHowever it is this quote that made me think of Syriza (and allay the fears of the moderator that i am off-topic) and what lies ahead
Quote:"labor leader Oscar Olivera remarked in an interview this year, "We thought that having Evo Morales in government would change things. And many things have changed. But we know now that not enough has changed. The people do not decide; the government decides. Despite the constitution guaranteeing rights for indigenous people and Mother Earth, those policies are not implemented; they are just words..Just because the state apparatus that now controls Bolivia's water (and so many other priorities) has mass support for its social programs doesn't diminish the need for organization by the people in their own interests. It does, however, require a new type of struggle. "This is much more difficult than [organizing] against Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada or a military or neoliberal government," Olivera said. "Evo is not like Sánchez de Lozada; he is a brother and a friend, for his other achievements. So, it is much more difficult to organize the people."The class war must continue, no matter what…(again, to accept otherwise is to surrender all our marxism)…even against those who say they are our friends…and because many believe this is really so, it weakens the class struggle.I think perhaps this is the approach any socialist would take…accept the political will of the people at the polls but try and fight the economic battles that are sure to come by demanding the political independence of the unions and community organisations.And internal conflict will now arise at that level, i am guessing as Syriza was active in the grassroots such as food banks anti racism etc…but now these groups must shed any dependence upon what is now the government.But Chavism did try to walk the line…did they succeed?
Meanwhile on the easter end of the mediterrean i came across this eco-radical tendency pushing Podemos to adopt their 10-point programme based on the ideology of de-growth and daring Syriza to follow it too. http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/01/28/yes-we-can-prosper-without-growth-10-policy-proposals-new-left
Impossible1904 has very timelely just reproduced on his Socialist Standard Past and Present site an article from the August 1981 Socialist Standard on the last time people calling themselves Marxists took responsibility for trying to get capitalism out of an economic crisis: the PS/PCF coalition government that entered officein France in June 1981:http://socialiststandardmyspace.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/communists-in-government.htmlNo doubt the follow-up article, two years later in the June 1983 "France: from failure to fiasco", explaining what happened next. is being scanned as we speak.The main difference is that the Syriza government in Greece has taken power under much severe economic conditions so will have even less chance of succeeding in making capitalism bend to its political will. Sad perhaps, but that's the cruel truth.
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